I'm getting super frustrated. .. been brewing about a year now and 80% of the beer has come out with overwhelming sourness. I've cleaned and soaked everything in iodine water every time and have been very careful with sanitation. There haven't been any physical signs of infection. Recently, I made an apa and it tasted great 9 days in the bottle. I tried again at 14 days and the sourness was back. These bottles were new and sanitized. Is there anything I'm missing that can cause this?
sour beer every damn time
- Thread starter kpd85
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What are your yeast handling and pitching procedures?
tootal
Well-Known Member
Is it a green apple flavor? If it is you have acetaldehyde. I had this in an IPA once and it was in some bottles but not others. I would normally suspect crud in the bottle because you can't sanitize crud but since they were new bottles I would suspect something else.
What are you fermenting in? We were using Starsan and getting infected beers until one day I caught my partner rinsing the foam out of a car boy with well water from a garden hose!! So make sure your fermentation containers are clean and scratch free if plastic. And don't rinse no rinse sanitizers.
What are you fermenting in? We were using Starsan and getting infected beers until one day I caught my partner rinsing the foam out of a car boy with well water from a garden hose!! So make sure your fermentation containers are clean and scratch free if plastic. And don't rinse no rinse sanitizers.
Good points. It very well could be the bottles. By new I mean I drank them and used them a few Days later, after cleaning. I use a bucket to ferment. May pick up some class carboys and kegging equipment then
flars
Well-Known Member
Check some of your empty bottles that you have before you start buying new equipment. Use a bright light and a white back ground when looking down the mouth of the bottle. If you see a dark speck in the bottles this is where your sour infection is coming from.
If this is the case an Oxyclean or PBW soak over night and a bottle brush will take care of it. Mount the brush in an electric drill for efficiency. Battery powered drill for safety.
CoryMathews
Member
Here is what I would do. Skip the rehydration step it is just another step to introduce contamination, you can add it back after you find the cause. Try starsan for a couple batches. This will force you to change your procedure and you might notice the problem. You may consider getting new tubing and a new fermenter bucket also. Last is to make sure the bottles are 100% clean to the eye before sanitizing.
Also, look into heat sterilization of your bottles to eliminate another factor. Basically throw tin foil over the tops and put in the oven at 250 overnight.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html
I have a hard believing that the infection is in the bottle though, because it wouldn't show up in every single bottle.
Also, replace every piece of vinyl tubing, It's so cheap at all the home improvement stores, just get a bunch.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html
I have a hard believing that the infection is in the bottle though, because it wouldn't show up in every single bottle.
Also, replace every piece of vinyl tubing, It's so cheap at all the home improvement stores, just get a bunch.
dlester
Well-Known Member
I agree with the others that you should look down the neck of the bottle for the physical inspection. Then use a bottle brush and cleanser/soap to clean the inside followed by rinse and sterilization. You have to clean and sterilize. Using sterilization without cleaning doesn't work because bacteria will cling to the sides. In addition, soap sterilizes as well.
If the infections persists, look into the other points already made about beer lines etc. If you are brewing outdoors or in the garage, it might be possible that you are picking up wild yeast.
The way to fix every issue is to pasteurize the beer after it is bottled as follows:
1. Place your bottles in your boiler kettle and fill with water about 3/4 way up the bottles side.
2. Open one of the bottles and place a thermometer in the bottle to track the temperature.
3. Start the fire on high and track the temperature. Your goal is to reach 165°F.
4. Turn off the flame at about 163°F and allow the temp to rise to 165° F.
5. Remove the bottles from the boiling kettle and allow to cool.
6. Recap the open bottle. BTW: It will foam during the heating, but don't worry it will be fine.
Cheers
If the infections persists, look into the other points already made about beer lines etc. If you are brewing outdoors or in the garage, it might be possible that you are picking up wild yeast.
The way to fix every issue is to pasteurize the beer after it is bottled as follows:
1. Place your bottles in your boiler kettle and fill with water about 3/4 way up the bottles side.
2. Open one of the bottles and place a thermometer in the bottle to track the temperature.
3. Start the fire on high and track the temperature. Your goal is to reach 165°F.
4. Turn off the flame at about 163°F and allow the temp to rise to 165° F.
5. Remove the bottles from the boiling kettle and allow to cool.
6. Recap the open bottle. BTW: It will foam during the heating, but don't worry it will be fine.
Cheers
It is frustrating, I hear you. You got to narrow it down. Good advice was already given, and replacing a few vinyl hoses is cheap.
Clean that bottling bucket spigot well. The two 3/4" rotating barrels do pop apart if soaked in really hot water first. Also check every part of your equipment and processes that touch your chilled wort and beer. Also check what your brewing partner does or doesn't do. Don't assume he knows what he's doing, you caught him once.
You cannot just rinse bottles; they need a bottle brush and some hot water with washing soda ("laundry detergent booster") or another beer-safe detergent like PBW. After thorough rinsing, sanitize. Use one of those jet bottle washers that screw into your faucet. If stored away, resanitize right before bottling. Starsan is just wonderful.
Bottles in the oven at 250 for a couple hours and then let cool off naturally is a good idea, but should be unnecessary if using other good sanitation practices.
Here's another one. Don't mill or handle grain where you ferment or bottle. Grain is covered in lactobacillus and the dust carries them with it.
Clean that bottling bucket spigot well. The two 3/4" rotating barrels do pop apart if soaked in really hot water first. Also check every part of your equipment and processes that touch your chilled wort and beer. Also check what your brewing partner does or doesn't do. Don't assume he knows what he's doing, you caught him once.
You cannot just rinse bottles; they need a bottle brush and some hot water with washing soda ("laundry detergent booster") or another beer-safe detergent like PBW. After thorough rinsing, sanitize. Use one of those jet bottle washers that screw into your faucet. If stored away, resanitize right before bottling. Starsan is just wonderful.
Bottles in the oven at 250 for a couple hours and then let cool off naturally is a good idea, but should be unnecessary if using other good sanitation practices.
Here's another one. Don't mill or handle grain where you ferment or bottle. Grain is covered in lactobacillus and the dust carries them with it.
WileECoyote
Well-Known Member
Hello,
Once some infections are in the plastic's, they can be really difficult to kill off.
You have 2 choices.
1. throw every plastic and rubber part away and replace with new, and sanitize the heck out of everything else.
2. If you don't want to replace every single plastic and rubber piece of equipment you can soak them in a 50/50 mix of Hydrogen Peroxide and water for 3 days, that should eliminate the infection.
Hope this helps !
Cheers
Once some infections are in the plastic's, they can be really difficult to kill off.
You have 2 choices.
1. throw every plastic and rubber part away and replace with new, and sanitize the heck out of everything else.
2. If you don't want to replace every single plastic and rubber piece of equipment you can soak them in a 50/50 mix of Hydrogen Peroxide and water for 3 days, that should eliminate the infection.
Hope this helps !
Cheers
FWIW - I had an issue like this a while back after never having the problem before. I traced the problem back to my plastic fermenting buckets. And I thought I was super diligent about cleaning and sanitizing. I scrapped all the buckets and switched to carboys only for fermenting. Not as easy to clean, but never a problem since. And as noted, tubing is cheap, might be worth replacing all the tubing you have.
dlester
Well-Known Member
I had a serious problem with continuously infected beers. I traced it back to the heat exchanger from Blichman. Some hops and trub were getting trapped in the exchanger, followed by mold growth. I was able to clear it and disinfect it. But, the real problem was allowing trub and hops through the line.
I cured the problem by whirl pooling the wort. However, because the vessel is not large, some trub would still manage to get in the line when the wort fell to the bottom where trub would move from the middle to the edge where the pick up line was located. Therefore, I moved the whirl pooled wort to another vessel, where I whirl pooled a second time in the second vessel (I use the liquor tank). With full confidence the wort is clear, I move it through the heat exchanger and into the fermenting tank. The wort is perfectly clear every time, and I didn't have to purchase any special devices to accomplish this task.
Cheers,
I cured the problem by whirl pooling the wort. However, because the vessel is not large, some trub would still manage to get in the line when the wort fell to the bottom where trub would move from the middle to the edge where the pick up line was located. Therefore, I moved the whirl pooled wort to another vessel, where I whirl pooled a second time in the second vessel (I use the liquor tank). With full confidence the wort is clear, I move it through the heat exchanger and into the fermenting tank. The wort is perfectly clear every time, and I didn't have to purchase any special devices to accomplish this task.
Cheers,
kenny_d
Well-Known Member
I don't think this is a good solution for the problem's the OP is having. Flat beer is no better than the sour beer he's getting.
Clean your equipment well! Replace items that are reltively cheap and anything that you can't clean well. ALWAYS clean your equipment ASAP after using it. Good cleaning and sanatizing processes will prevent this in the future.
Transamguy77
Well-Known Member
Where do you ferment and where do you bottle? I had a infection problem last year, turns out it was some sort of mold from my basement, I dumped a lot of beer last year before I figured out where my problem was and not in my plastic stuff. I also did not replace any fermenters or anything just a semi strong bleach solution and cleaned everything. If your problem is after fermentation I would look at where you bottle, you could pull a sample bottle or 2 direct from the fermenter to verify if the problem is is the bottling bucket or after that. Also take really good notes and step by step of your process so it can help you nail down your problem. Good luck.
Wow thanks for all the advice! So the night I posted this, I had brought three bottles of two different beers, both of which were bottled the same day. Last night, I tried two more of each and they were perfect. So, there is almost certainly an issue with the bottles. I'll be picking up new tubing as a precaution, and going on a cleaning and sanitizing frenzy this weekend, both equipment and bottling area. I would love to bake my bottles, but traditional ovens are somewhat rare here, so I don't have one. I have a huge boil kettle so I'm sure I can boil them instead. If the problem persists....I hope nobody is standing outside my window, because that's where it's all going ha
kenny_d
Well-Known Member
Glad things are looking up for you and youre sticking with it. Cheers!
