Something is wrong

[astropunk]

My spotted cow clone has a problem.

I brewed up this kit from Northern brewer:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...n-ale-kits/speckled-heifer-all-grain-kit.html

Relevant facts:
- It was my first time doing an all grain kit, and my second time ever brewing
- I had problems keeping the mash temp steady
- I mashed at what I thought was about 148 for 60 minutes (lost more strike water heat than expected)
- I added about 1 gal of near boiling water to bring it up a bit, but it didnt help, so I left it alone.
- I sparged with 170deg water
- I hit my boil volume (calculated by brewpal ipod app) perfectly
- My gravity was very low. I measured 31, but am unsure of the accuracy of that measurement.
- fermented 14 days at 65-68degrees
- kegged on the 15th day, refrigerated at 38deg, and forced carbed @ 10psi. Its on its 3rd day in the keg now.
- All equipment sanitized with starsan. I erred on the side of "too much" over too little sanitizer.

The problem:
There is a strange taste that I cant decide if its "astringency" or sourness.
It comes out in the smell and taste. If I had to describe it, it almost smells/tastes like corn husks. The recipe uses flaked corn, and I believe its supposed to be there, but this is really strong. Its still drinkable, but nowhere near as smooth as it should be.

So Im already done with this beer, and my only option now is to let it sit and hope it gets better. Do I hold out hope that it will get better with time, or is this an infection of something sinister that will not get better?

 

[astropunk]

I forgot to mention, that halfway through the mash, my thermometer went berserk, and any temps are suspect. I used the turkey thermometer to measure my sparge water temp, and it only shows 5 degree increments ranging from 50 to 500 degrees.
(Yes, I now own a new digital probe thermometer!)

 

[slomo]

What is your recipe

 

[astropunk]

Its in the link

here is the pdf recipe
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-SpeckledHeifer.pdf

 

[Walker]

you only brewed this beer 18 days ago. it's not ready to drink yet.

Leaving your beers in the fermenter(s) - be it all in the primary, or partly in yhe primary and partly in a secondary - for at least 4 weeks before you keg or bottle it will make a huge difference.

This beer is simply too young to judge.

 

[astropunk]

So...will it continue to age now that it is cooled and kegged, or will it stay this way? I can't exactly put it back in the fermenter.

 

[Walker]

it will still improve with time. I can't tell you if cold aging will give the same results as some warm aging + some cold aging, but I can tell you that the beer will get better.

My beers change quite a bit during their first two weeks cold.

 

[JayAre]

- My gravity was very low. I measured 31, but am unsure of the accuracy of that measurement.

Did you adjust your gravity based on the temperature at which you took the reading?

 

[astropunk]

Not sure of the temp, as my thermometer was not accurate. But even a 50degree temp swing only changes the gravity from 1.029 to 1.034. The target was 1.042.

I'm holding out hope that it will improve with time. Its not undrinkable, just a bit out of character. I wanted to wait longer, but the want to start a new batch overcame that. I know people are not big on using a secondary here, but Im going to do that next time, so I can free up my primary. The cold storage did make it clear up dramatically.

 

[jetmac]

I would think the flavors will improve.

What was your final gravity?

Your sparge temp was also too low.

A low mash temp will equal more alcohol "MALT" M=more A=alcohol L=lower T=temperature.

What are you mashing in?

The mash temperature will most likely vary across the mash

 

[jetmac]

Not sure of the temp, as my thermometer was not accurate. But even a 50degree temp swing only changes the gravity from 1.029 to 1.034. The target was 1.042.

If the temperature of the wort when you checked the gravity was say, 120F, then a hydrometer reading of 1.031 corrected for temperature would be 1.041.

Hydrometer Correction Calculator

 

[JLem]

the huskiness/astringency could be from oversparging and/or too hot a sparge - like you said, your temp readings may be off. How much did you sparge?

 

[jetmac]

The "corn husk" flavor could be DMS. A longer boil would help get rid of it or at least tone it down.

 

[astropunk]

I boiled it for about 75 minutes, which boiled it down to almost exactly 5 gallons from just over 6.

My sparge was a little over 4 gallons, my mash was calc'd at 1.25qts per pound.

My FG measurement was done at around 60degrees, just prior to pitching yeast.

The biggest variable I can see is the temps. My new digital thermometer measures about 3.5degress cooler than the one I used for this batch. Thats not as much as I expected, but could make a difference?

BTW, the "corn" taste I described is different from my wife's description. She says it more like a "lemon" flavor. Neither of us are beer critics for sure, so its hard to describe!

 

[jetmac]

Do you know the gravity pre-boil? Only losing 1 gal in 75 min is pretty low. Between boil and shrinkage I usually loose 2 gal in 60 min. I think you should loose between 1.5 and 2 gallons to get the concentration/gravity you need.

 

[jetmac]

1.25 qt/lb is low. Try to get closer to 1.5. That would let you split your mash and sparge water more evenly. I think you should be mashing with more towards 3.5gal or a little better. This might also help stablize your mash temps. A target pre-boil volume of 7-7.5 gal would be better. Turn the temperature up to make sure you have a good boil. Then you can boil down to 5gal or 5.5 gal

 

[astropunk]

Im going to try these suggestions this weekend, when I do my next batch. Hopefully with the new thermometer & a larger grain bill my starting gravity will be more on target.

I also downloaded beer smith, so I will see how that compares as well. I really like the brewpal app, and not needing to have a computer.

My next batch is a Chinook IPA from northern brewer:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-ChinookIPA.pdf

Id be happy to hear any advice or suggestions for this next batch.

 

[astropunk]

One other question:

When you sparge, are you supposed to let the sparge water "mash" for a few minutes or vorlauf immediately?

Last time I added the water, mixed thoroughly, let it sit for 10-12 minutes, then vorlauffed.

 

[jetmac]

One other question:

When you sparge, are you supposed to let the sparge water "mash" for a few minutes or vorlauf immediately?

Last time I added the water, mixed thoroughly, let it sit for 10-12 minutes, then vorlauffed.

You do not have to let it sit. I do let it sit a couple min. But I also split my sparge. You are "rinsing" your grains during the sparge. So to get all of the sweet wort i split my sparge. I will sparge with 2 gallons twice. Sort of like rinsing a glass. You get more soap off the glass if you rinse it twice.

Read this Bobby_M’s All Grain Brewing Primer

 

[jetmac]

BTW, the "corn" taste I described is different from my wife's description. She says it more like a "lemon" flavor. Neither of us are beer critics for sure, so its hard to describe!

It is really too early to evaluate taste.

 

[JLem]

You do not have to let it sit. I do let it sit a couple min. But I also split my sparge. You are "rinsing" your grains during the sparge. So to get all of the sweet wort i split my sparge. I will sparge with 2 gallons twice. Sort of like rinsing a glass. You get more soap off the glass if you rinse it twice.

True, but you can oversparge, which will lead to the overextraction of tannins which will cause astringency. You don't need to rinse all the sugars off. If you are in the 70% efficiency range you are doing well and probably not oversparging.

 

[JayAre]

Temp is very important. For example, if your gravity was 1.031 at 120 degrees F, you get an adjusted gravity of 1.041. I would suggest getting a good thermometer. You can get one on Amazon for $10-15.

Also, +1 on the sparge temp being too low.

 

[devilishprune]

I think that your beer is just too young to taste right now. Since you just hooked it up to gas it might be carbonic acid that you're tasting, which is nothing to worry about.

Even though you have kegs you can't skip the conditioning time after kegging.

 

[astropunk]

I was kind of asking if it will get better with time, and I am starting to believe it will. I tasted another sample last night (2 days later) and it is a bit more mellow than before. In fact, Im starting to taste the malty goodness in the beer, and in a couple weeks (if the trend continues) this is going to be fantastic!

Im brewing again this weekend!! Anybody else?!?

 

[astropunk]

Update!!

My beer has been in the refridgerated keg for about 2 weeks now, in "lager" mode The flavor has come around nicely! It is very good now, and does not seem to be getting better anymore, so Im going to start drinking and sharing it The extra wait time seemed to be the key, so for now on I will just ignore that part of the instructions.

Also, my original concern with this batch was my low efficiency. I finished up another batch this weekend, and am happy as heck to report that I NAILED the target!!! 1.050!! BOOOYA!! As suspected, my temps were off. I used a new thermometer and I fudged in extra temp loss for my MLT. This time I nailed the temps. The NEW problem this round was I missed my volume by about 1 gallon, getting only a bit over 4 gals in my fermenter. I started with a 6+ gal boil, but I must have boiled it too aggressively to lose almost 2 gallons.

Anyhooo.....Im calling AG Batch #2 successful, and I am learning more with each step! It is much easier to learn by doing than by reading! And a lot more fun too

 

[ThePearsonFam]

Okay, couple things....

- Sparging with 170 degree water shouldn't matter. Shoot for ~167/168.
- Someone asked about letting the sparge water sit on the grains for a bit... There's nothing wrong with that either. If you let 168 degree sparge water sit in your grains (read that as mixed/stirred in), then you'ved effectively done a mash-out. More experienced brewers will probably tell you that mash-out is optional but it certainly won't hurt your brew.

Last thing... It sounds like, although you hit your OG perfectly on your second batch, you may still have a problem with your assumed mash efficiency. I say that because you hit your OG but boiled off more water to get there. I'd say that you should determine your mash efficiency and use that number in you brewing software (most are set to 75% efficiency by default).

 

[jetmac]

Thinning out your mash will help your efficiency. Some may dissagree, but spargeing is just rinsing the grain, the conversion is already done, so letting it sit for a long time doesn't really do anything beneficial. But get some more heat in your sparge water.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I personally use a water to grist ratio of 1.5 but that's a personal, subjective number.