Some questions about things I was unaware of

[arringtonbp]

I think that my first brew went well with the exception that it was done in an infected plastic bucket, thus ended up with the same infection I had before. I do have a few questions for the next batch (once i get new equipment).

(For an extract kit)

1. Can an autosiphon be run through the dishwasher? Bottling wand? Food grade tubing?

2. What is the purpose of whirpooling, and when do you do it?

3. Hot break and cold break. When do they occur and are they important? Is it necessary to start my boil time at the hot break?

4. Is 1 week primary, 2 weeks secondary, 3 weeks bottle acceptable? (all approximate of course)

5. Yeast starter? How is it done, and in what situations does it help?

 

[arringtonbp]

Anybody?

 

[Tinga]

1. I wouldn't run it through the dishwasher. Some of that tubing isn't meant for the heat a dishwasher puts things through.

2. whirlpooling takes place after the chilling process and boiling. The purpose of a whirlpool is to get all the sludge in the boil to settle into a cone shape at the bottom of the boil kettle. once all the sludge is in the center on the bottom you can transfer the liquid free of that stuff into the carboy.

3. hot break occurs when you begin to heat up your water for the boil. the proteins change shape and coagulate into foamy type stuff that will float to the surface and then drop down later in the boil. Cold break is almost the same thing it just happens when you begin to chill the kettle after the boil.

4. Most people on here will say primary for 3-4 weeks skip secondary (unless you are adding something like hops or fruit after primary) and bottle @ 70* F for at least 3 weeks.

5. a yeast starter is used to increase the amount of yeast cells from your liquid vial to an amount that is esily capable of fermenting your batch without stressing out the yeast before they actually do work on your beer. This is a good thread explaining how to do them. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

 

[arringtonbp]

1. I wouldn't run it through the dishwasher. Some of that tubing isn't meant for the heat a dishwasher puts things through.

2. whirlpooling takes place after the chilling process and boiling. The purpose of a whirlpool is to get all the sludge in the boil to settle into a cone shape at the bottom of the boil kettle. once all the sludge is in the center on the bottom you can transfer the liquid free of that stuff into the carboy.

3. hot break occurs when you begin to heat up your water for the boil. the proteins change shape and coagulate into foamy type stuff that will float to the surface and then drop down later in the boil. Cold break is almost the same thing it just happens when you begin to chill the kettle after the boil.

4. Most people on here will say primary for 3-4 weeks skip secondary (unless you are adding something like hops or fruit after primary) and bottle @ 70* F for at least 3 weeks.

5. a yeast starter is used to increase the amount of yeast cells from your liquid vial to an amount that is esily capable of fermenting your batch without stressing out the yeast before they actually do work on your beer. This is a good thread explaining how to do them. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

Thanks for all the great info. After whirlpooling, do you siphon the beer out of the kettle or pour it into the fermenter, being careful to leave the sediment behind? On my last batch I primary'd for 4 weeks and it worked out fine I think. I passed infected beer through my siphoning equipment, so I'm trying to find a way to sterilize it so I don't have to buy new siphoning equipment.

 

[plumbob]

1. Depends on the auto-siphon, the answer is probably not. You NEED those rubber seals to be tight to get and keep the siphon going and anything like high temps and abrasive detergent isn't going to help you win that fight.

2. Whirlpooling (as I just found out) is a means of getting the gunk out of your wort prior to sending it into the fermenter. Give the brew pot a vigorous mix in one direction and then skim off the resulting gunk from the middle of the wort.

3. Hot break occurs when you take the wort up to a boil the first time, I believe if you are an extract brewer you'll get a new one every time you add more extract and bring to a boil. A lot of stuff you don't want to taste in your beer comes out at this time and will sink to the bottom of the wart as it cools, don't wash it into the fermenter.

4. It could work, longer is usually better from what I've read.

5. There are some how-to pages out there, I'm sure Google or someone more experienced that I will yield that. Basically you are getting the yeast live, active, and working prior to starting the fermentation proper. It helps with "big" beers with high original gravity, that have a lot of fermenting to do under stressful conditions (high osmotic pressures, then high alcohol content). It just gets things out of the gate in a hurry if nothing else.

 

[thughes]

The cost of siphoning equipment is cheap compared to losing another batch of beer.

 

[NOISEpollution]

Just a quick note on when to start your boil time. Not sure about all extract but when I do partial mash, my schedule looks something like this.

1. Place grains in grain bag and place in brew pot filled with about 4 gallons of water.

2. Turn on heat and allow brew pot to heat up until temperature reaches 170 (depends on the style)

3. At 170, remove grain bag and allow excess drip to land in brew pot.

4. As wort begins to boil, remove from heat and add malt extract. Stir to dissolve extract.

5. Return to boil and allow to pre-boil for 5 minutes.

6. After 5 minute pre-boil, add first hop addition.

7. Start boil clock.

 

[arringtonbp]

Just a quick note on when to start your boil time. Not sure about all extract but when I do partial mash, my schedule looks something like this.

1. Place grains in grain bag and place in brew pot filled with about 4 gallons of water.

2. Turn on heat and allow brew pot to heat up until temperature reaches 170 (depends on the style)

3. At 170, remove grain bag and allow excess drip to land in brew pot.

4. As wort begins to boil, remove from heat and add malt extract. Stir to dissolve extract.

5. Return to boil and allow to pre-boil for 5 minutes.

6. After 5 minute pre-boil, add first hop addition.

7. Start boil clock.

Well, I didn't realize that extract with specialty grains was partial mash, but in that case that's what I have been doing.

 

[RM-MN]

Extract with specialty grains is not normally a partial mash. To be a partial mash you need a base malt like pale malt and you need to hold your temperature within a narrow range, usually 148 to 158 so that the enzymes in the pale malt can convert the starch to sugar. Specialty grains have been heated too much for the enzymes to have survived and are for added color and flavor. They may be included in a partial mash also but most cannot convert their starch to sugar.

 

[arringtonbp]

Extract with specialty grains is not normally a partial mash. To be a partial mash you need a base malt like pale malt and you need to hold your temperature within a narrow range, usually 148 to 158 so that the enzymes in the pale malt can convert the starch to sugar. Specialty grains have been heated too much for the enzymes to have survived and are for added color and flavor. They may be included in a partial mash also but most cannot convert their starch to sugar.

Ah okay. Then I just do extract with specialty grains.

 

[Homercidal]

I would not put an autosiphon through the dishwasher, just rinse well and sanitized before putting away.

What you are likely doing is steeping your grains for sugar and flavor. Base Malts are not processed enough to destroy their enzymes, and they need to be "Mashed", as noted just above in order to get their sugars converted.

Steeping grains are just crushed and rinsed to get their flavor and sugar. (steeping grains are roasted and crystal malts and some others.)

 

[william_shakes_beer]

1. I never run plastic throught he dishwasher. I mix up 2.5 gallons of starsan in my spare fermenter and drop all then plastic parts in at the beginning of the operation. For autosiphon, put the tip of t it and the discharge hose in the starsan and give it a few pumps until all the air is replaced by solution. Then remove and drain as much as possible just before use.

2. I don't whirlpool, I have a pot with a spigot. I open the spigot and run the entire brew pot into the fermenter through a sanitized stainless steel strainer. Could do the same thing by pouring, although controlling a 3 to 5 gallon bucket of liquid can be a challenge. Binder clips on the strainer handles eliminate one possible issue. I suppose you could autosiphon from brew pot, although I'd worry about the seals unless the wort was completely cooled which could take a very long time.

3. Already answered, I have no further information to add.

4. Most common logic sugests 4 weeks primary, 4 weeks bottle conditioning, no secondary unless you're adding fruit. That's the schedule In follow.

 

[Tinga]

Thanks for all the great info. After whirlpooling, do you siphon the beer out of the kettle or pour it into the fermenter, being careful to leave the sediment behind? On my last batch I primary'd for 4 weeks and it worked out fine I think. I passed infected beer through my siphoning equipment, so I'm trying to find a way to sterilize it so I don't have to buy new siphoning equipment.

yeah siphon or drain via ball valve and dip tube

 

[bighorn_brew]

I am just going to chime in re: the auto siphon in washer,,,,uh,,,don't do it unless you want a autosiphon that appears to be on LSD....

 

[arringtonbp]

I am just going to chime in re: the auto siphon in washer,,,,uh,,,don't do it unless you want a autosiphon that appears to be on LSD....

Lol thanks for that one

 

[Homercidal]

Another tip: Don't use an autosiphon to transfer hot wort from your boil kettle...

 

[arringtonbp]

Another tip: Don't use an autosiphon to transfer hot wort from your boil kettle...

What about chilled wort (after placing the boil kettle into the ice water bath for 20 minutes, when the wort gets down to about 70-80 degrees)?

 

[torbanac]

Go here for info on whirlpooling, pictures etc

Whirlpooling - Home Brewing Wiki

 

[NOISEpollution]

What about chilled wort (after placing the boil kettle into the ice water bath for 20 minutes, when the wort gets down to about 70-80 degrees)?

I don't see why you'd want to. Once the wort reaches that temperature you need to aerate it. I consider the main purpose of the siphon to be to avoid splashing but in this case you want a TON of splashing (once it has cooled of course). If you're worried about the extra sediment getting into the fermenter then use a filter or colander or both but remember that some of that sediment provides nutrients to your yeast.

 

[Homercidal]

What about chilled wort (after placing the boil kettle into the ice water bath for 20 minutes, when the wort gets down to about 70-80 degrees)?

My advice was to prevent warping from the heat. You could use it to transfer off the gunk if you like. I usually just siphon into buckets, usually through a screen so it drops in and splashes.

I'm lazy, but it would be a good idea to aerate even more, like with a mixer of some sort, or an aquarium pump or oxygen system.

 

[arringtonbp]

I don't see why you'd want to. Once the wort reaches that temperature you need to aerate it. I consider the main purpose of the siphon to be to avoid splashing but in this case you want a TON of splashing (once it has cooled of course). If you're worried about the extra sediment getting into the fermenter then use a filter or colander or both but remember that some of that sediment provides nutrients to your yeast.

When you whirlpool the wort and all of the sediment ends up as a cone in the middle of the kettle, pouring the wort from the kettle would disturb the cone wouldnt it? I would think you'd want to use a siphon so that the sediment stays in the boil kettle. Isn't it best to cool the wort, whirlpool it, let it sit for 20-30 mins (covered) and then siphon it to the fermenter?

 

[NOISEpollution]

When you whirlpool the wort and all of the sediment ends up as a cone in the middle of the kettle, pouring the wort from the kettle would disturb the cone wouldnt it? I would think you'd want to use a siphon so that the sediment stays in the boil kettle. Isn't it best to cool the wort, whirlpool it, let it sit for 20-30 mins (covered) and then siphon it to the fermenter?

If you're that worried about getting the sediment in your fermenter but some of that is beneficial to the health of the yeast. After racking it to secondary, you'll leave behind most of it and if you're bottling, you'll leave behind even more when racking to the bottling bucket.

The reason I don't siphon is that pouring the wort allows for some much needed aeration and I'd rather dump it in and get some sediment in there and only rock it for a minute then hold back sediment and rock it for two minutes.

 

[unionrdr]

I place my fine mesh strainer over the top of the fermenter,then pour the chilled wort & top off water through that. It strains & aerates it at the same time. Then stir like a mad dog for 5 minutes straight. Works real well. My Burton ale started with 10L of wort added to the FV in this fashion for 23L total,or 6.072 gallons. Being nearly half the total amount,it got 3-5 inches of thick foam on top just from pouring through the fine mesh strainer.

 

[Pie_Man]

I think that my first brew went well with the exception that it was done in an infected plastic bucket, thus ended up with the same infection I had before.

It seems that your original questions have been pretty well answered, but I'm curious about your infection, or infections. Did you use the same bucket? Have you changed your cleaning and sanitation procedures?
I'm confused how many batches were infected, but I'd advise a good no rinse sanitizer like starsan and a cleaner. New tubing,etc. may also be in order.

 

[unionrdr]

And if it has a spigot,pull it out & clean/sanitize it separately, Seals lock lug & all. Even the mounting hole,since it is rough cut.