Solving a Beer Puzzle

[StLouBrew]

In my travels, I found a brewpub in Boston called Boston Beer Works. One evening this past week, I ordered up their Bambino Pale Ale and liked it… a lot! I went back the next day at lunch to talk to the brew master. Gave him my compliments, identified myself as a newly-obsessed home brewer and asked him what he could tell me about the beer that would help me take a run and brewing it. He was really busy and all he could offer me was:
“It’s a pretty simple beer. I use Vienna and 2 row. For hops I use Simcoe and Centennial.. late addition.” The only other detail I got from him was that the OG was 1.054.

I went on their website and learned that this beer is 30 IBUs. I’m guessing a SRM in the 7-8 range. While it was on the lighter, less bitter end of the Pale Ale spectrum, it had really nice hop flavor and aroma. I suppose that’s consistent with what he said about the late addition of the hops. I’m pretty sure he also said he did not dry hop.

So, I’d love to attempt a 5 gallon extract version of this. Since all I’ve ever done before is FOLLOW recipes, I think I’m going to need some advice in coming up with one. Specifically:

1. The Vienna and 2 Row… Are those the specialty grains that I’d steep prior to doing the boil? If so, would a half pound of each seem reasonable?
   
   
2. DME/LME: I’m also guessing around 6lbs of a light LME.. Thoughts??
   
   
3. Hops: I got the impression he didn’t add any hops until there was no more than 30 or 15 minutes left.. possibly even later. Given that he used Simcoe and Centennial, any thoughts about quantities and timing?

Thanks in advance for all who offer their advice and suggestions!

 

[glick]

The Vienna and 2-row are base grains. You would substitute extract for them. I don't think that you can get Vienna extract, but I am also not too well versed in extract brewing. I would not add many hops until you are down to less then 15 minutes, but keep an eye on the IBUs to determine the amounts.

 

[Yooper]

The Vienna and 2-row are base grains. You would substitute extract for them. I don't think that you can get Vienna extract, but I am also not too well versed in extract brewing. I would not add many hops until you are down to less then 15 minutes, but keep an eye on the IBUs to determine the amounts.

There really isn't any sub for Vienna. Vienna malt is a wonderful rich grain that would be sort of "warm" and almost toasty but not quite- malty in flavor.

How much grain can you use in a grainbag, and how big is your kettle? Since Vienna malt must be mashed, we'd need to know that.

 

[StLouBrew]

There really isn't any sub for Vienna. Vienna malt is a wonderful rich grain that would be sort of "warm" and almost toasty but not quite- malty in flavor.

How much grain can you use in a grainbag, and how big is your kettle? Since Vienna malt must be mashed, we'd need to know that.

My kettle is probably 7 gal or so. It's an aluminum Bayou Classic turkey fryer kettle. Never mashed before... could be interesting.

Yooper - thanks for taking a look!

 

[Beernik]

I've never seen Vienna DME but you can get Munich DME. It's the closest extract substitute. You could use Light DME for the two row and PM enough Vienna malt in a bag to get the 7 - 8 SRM.

Late edition of Simcoe and Centennial sounds like it's probably all added in the last 15 minutes.

And I suspect 1.054 is the OG, not FG. Otherwise it would have had to be extremely sweet.

Let me run some numbers and I'll give you a first guess at a 5 gallon recipe you can start playing with.

 

[StLouBrew]

I've never seen Vienna DME but you can get Munich DME. It's the closest extract substitute. You could use Light DME for the two row and PM enough Vienna malt in a bag to get the 7 - 8 SRM.

Late edition of Simcoe and Centennial sounds like it's probably all added in the last 15 minutes.

And I suspect 1.054 is the OG, not FG. Otherwise it would have had to be extremely sweet.

Let me run some numbers and I'll give you a first guess at a 5 gallon recipe you can start playing with.

Yup, that was a typo - shoulda been OG. Thanks!

 

[Beernik]

Ok, here's a rough guess from your stats. I haven't had the beer, so I don't know how close it will be. But this should at least get you in the neighborhood.

I'm assuming pellet hops and 10% AA for the Centennial & 13% AA for the Simcoe. You'll have to decide how much dry hopping you want to do. I'm also assuming a full 60 minute boil.

I'm also assuming equal Centennial and Simcoe additions. That may not be the case. If it's more floral and citrusy, that could indicate more Centennial than Simcoe. If it's more piney and resiny, that could indicate more Simcoe.

I also think it must have some Crystal 20L or 30L. Otherwise, it's mostly Vienna malt for a grain bill with a 7 - 8 SRM.

For 5 gallons:
Grain Bill
3.75 Light DME (or 4.75lbs Light LME)
4lbs Vienna Malt

Partial mash the Vienna malt in a mesh bag in 1.5 gallons of water at 150F for 60 minutes. That's 1.5 quarts water per pound of grain. You can go with more water if you need to. You need enough to get the grain fully submerged and also off the bottom of the BK.

Hop Schedule
0.5oz Centennial @ 15 minutes
0.5oz Simcoe @ 15 minutes
0.25oz Centennial @ 10 minutes
0.25oz Simcoe @ 10 minutes
0.25oz Centennial @ 5 minutes
0.25oz Simcoe @ 5 minutes

Wyeast 1056 is probably a safe bet.

Stats for this beer:
OG: 1.053
FG: 1.013
ABV: 5.2%
SRM: 6.2
IBU: 30

 

[StLouBrew]

I really appreciate you taking a shot at this. I'll give it a go and see how it turns out.

Cheers

 

[Beernik]

Not a problem. It was a good excuse for procrastinating on sorting through tax receipts.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[Beernik]

You know what? I goofed. That recipe above was 4.75lbs LME. You want to use 3.75lb Light DME instead.

I'm going to edit the change.

 

[StLouBrew]

You know what? I goofed. That recipe above was 4.75lbs LME. You want to use 3.75lb Light DME instead.

Better you goof there than on your taxes

Thanks

 

[StLouBrew]

A couple of months ago, I stopped in a brewpub in Boston and fell in love with a pale ale called "Bambino." Loved it because of the strong hoppy aroma & flavor without too much bitterness. I might describe it as a slighltly lighter, crisper version of a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I was so enamored with this beer that I found and pestered the brewmaster (Josh Sattin) for his recipe. He has since left that brewpub and started up his own LHBS in Boston: www.bostonhomebrewsupply.com

I wasn't set up to do all grain, so I had to adapt the initial information he provided to do a partial mash. Here's what I did:

Ingredients:

• 4.5lb Extra Light DME
• 3lb Vienna Malt
• 3 oz Simcoe
• 3 oz Cenennial
• Wyeast 1056

Procedure:

• Partial mash the Vienna:
  
  [*]Heat 4.5 quarts of water to 162
  [*]Add grain bag with the 3 lbs of Vienna malt – slowly dip into pot. Dunk and poke with spoon
  [*]Stabilize temp at 150 for 30-45 minutes
  [*]During mash, heat 4.5 quarts of water to 170
  [*]When mash is complete, remove and drain grain bag, transfer wort to boil kettle
  [*]Place grain bag in strain or colander and sparge ~1 quart at a time.​
• Add water to boil kettle.. up to at least 3 gallons. Bring to boil and remove from heat
• Stir in 4.5 lbs of Extra light DME and return to boil
• Hop additions:
  
  [*]15 min remaining: 1oz Centennial & 1oz Simcoe
  [*]Flameout: 1oz Centennial & 1 oz Simcoe
  ​

After fermentation, I dry hopped with 1oz Simcoe and 1oz Centennial​

OG: 1.053
FG: 1.009

I kegged this last night. The sample I tasted was SPOT ON. Hoping that by the time it's cold and carbed it comes out exactly the way I tasted at the brew pub.

If you're interested in a AG recipe Josh just sent it to me. I'll be glad to post it as well.

 

[CadiBrewer]

I'm interested in the all grain version. The description sounds like my ideal pale ale.

 

[StLouBrew]

I'm interested in the all grain version. The description sounds like my ideal pale ale.

This is the complete AG version directly from the brewer.

OG 1.054
FG 1.009
40 BU
5.5 SRM

8.5 lbs. 2 Row
3.75 lbs. Vienna
Mash at 150 for 30 min
Boil for 65 minutes

.25 oz Horizon 11.2% 60 min
.5 oz Simcoe 13.2% 15 min
.5 oz Centennial 8.7% 15 min
1 oz Simcoe 13.2% 0 min
1 oz Centennial 8.7% 0 min
(whirlpool/rest or let stand for ~10 min before chilling)

Chill to 64 degrees and ferment with American Ale (US-05, Wyeast 1056, WLP001, etc.) at 68 degrees

.5 oz Simcoe dry hop
.5 oz Centennial dry hop

Cheers