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LabRatBrewer

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If you live in California:

On October 1, 2013, Governor Brown signed AB1425 into law. It is being interpreted by the California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control to prohibit homebrew festivals like the Southern California Homebrew Festival. The bill was originally written to allow the donation of home brewed beer and wine to be used for fundraising purposes by worthy non-profit organizations, but excludes groups that “promote home production of beer or wine, or whose membership is composed primarily of home brewers or home winemakers”.

The ABC is denying permits for our festival, and likely the AHA National Conference (if they choose to come to California in 2015). The ABC has also hinted the any homebrew club collecting dues and having beer tasting maybe in violation.

I am asking if you would write your local California Assembly member and State Senator asking for the bill to be amended and for our 2014 event to be allowed to move forward as planned.

Here's how to find your representatives: http://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/

Here is the CHA website:
http://www1.calhomebrewers.org/

I will attach my letter to the next post.

Thanks! :mug:
 
Dammit!
Just when I was thinking California couldn't suck any worse..............
Time to bug the elected criminals - again.
 
Tough one! I can see it from both sides though - from my understanding the bil was passed to allow people to sell homebrew at fund raising events, basically a bakesale with beer (or wine, mead, graff...). Good on them for that.
But I can understand that they don't want people to cheat the system by calling their homebrew club a charity and then selling beer regularly. But I agree they could have done this a better way instead of a blanket w'well homebrewers can't sell beer to help their own club" by not making it illegal to do it just a bit more difficult with some strict rules (which should really be inforced for any charity). If you had to apply for a permit (whihc I imagine you need to anyway) then it could be up to the authority issueing it to determine if you are running a bonified charity event or are just trying to sell beer without opening a brewery! For instance limiting the number of permits allowed per year would be perfect - only 2-4 events per charity.
 
Tough one! I can see it from both sides though - from my understanding the bil was passed to allow people to sell homebrew at fund raising events, basically a bakesale with beer (or wine, mead, graff...). Good on them for that.
But I can understand that they don't want people to cheat the system by calling their homebrew club a charity and then selling beer regularly. But I agree they could have done this a better way instead of a blanket w'well homebrewers can't sell beer to help their own club" by not making it illegal to do it just a bit more difficult with some strict rules (which should really be inforced for any charity). If you had to apply for a permit (whihc I imagine you need to anyway) then it could be up to the authority issueing it to determine if you are running a bonified charity event or are just trying to sell beer without opening a brewery! For instance limiting the number of permits allowed per year would be perfect - only 2-4 events per charity.

The issue is that we are not selling any beer or raising funds. The festival is a members only club event, and the beer is given away to members. Clubs are not allowed to charge for their beer. However, since we charge an annual membership due the ABC sees it as indirect sales of alcohol. The membership dues pay for the Buses, the site rental, the booths, the insurance, and the security.
 
The issue is that we are not selling any beer or raising funds. The festival is a members only club event, and the beer is given away to members. Clubs are not allowed to charge for their beer. However, since we charge an annual membership due the ABC sees it as indirect sales of alcohol. The membership dues pay for the Buses, the site rental, the booths, the insurance, and the security.

That is a hard one then, if it is a private event and the beer is being provided free of charge then I don't think it should fall under this new charity law. It would be the same as every second person bringing a doxen beers along and putting them in a communial cooler(s).
In the past what did you require permit wise to run your festival?
 
The issue is that we are not selling any beer or raising funds. The festival is a members only club event, and the beer is given away to members. Clubs are not allowed to charge for their beer. However, since we charge an annual membership due the ABC sees it as indirect sales of alcohol. The membership dues pay for the Buses, the site rental, the booths, the insurance, and the security.

A couple of things.....SCHF is an awesome event!! However I don't think we are really fooling anyone by calling it a "members only" event. Anyone can become a member and the reality is that the whole purpose of the CHA is to put on the homebrewers festival. The CHA, as far as I know, doesn't have any other events/meetings. I am on their mailing list/FB page and I very rarely hear from them. The new law will be great for homebrewers in the long run!! I am already scheduled to pour/donate at several non profit fundraisers.
Another potential wrinkle that I am not sure anyone has even thought about is that the event is in Ventura Co. Ventura Co. Environmental Health has been cracking down on festival style events and requiring all food/drink booths to have a Temporary Food Facility permit....which of course requires you to take THEIR class. A local homebrew club was barred from a local charity beer festival last summer for lack of a TFF permit. I am taking this class in a few weeks and have LOTS of questions to ask regarding the permit and homebrew clubs.
 
That is a hard one then, if it is a private event and the beer is being provided free of charge then I don't think it should fall under this new charity law. It would be the same as every second person bringing a doxen beers along and putting them in a communial cooler(s).
In the past what did you require permit wise to run your festival?

In the past we have purchased day use permits from the ABC at the request of Lake Casistas (even though there is a good argument that no permit is necessary, they ask for it so we got). The Festival is in its 24th year dating back to the days it was held on Vinny's farm at the Blind Pig.

The legislature did not intent to stop our fest, the AB1425 was meant to make it easy for wine makers to support charity. The ABC, just saw the new law, and found an unintended purpose.
 
There should be little change to your circumsatnces and I do belive you are completely correct that it is the ABC's interpritation that is wrong
AB1425 Ammendments in part said:
Section 23356.2 of the Business and Professions Code is amended to read:
23356.2.
(a) No license or permit shall be required for the manufacture of beer or wine for personal or family use, and not for sale, by a person over 21 years of age. The aggregate amount of beer or wine with respect to any household shall not exceed (1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are two or more adults in the household or (2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult in the household.
(b) Beer or wine produced pursuant to this section may be removed from the premises where made only under any of the following circumstances:
(1) For use, including tasting by judges, in a bona fide competition or exhibition.

(2) For personal or family use.
(3) When donated to a nonprofit organization for use as provided in subdivision (c).
(c) (1) Beer or wine produced pursuant to this section may be donated to a nonprofit organization for sale at fundraising events conducted solely by and for the benefit of the nonprofit organization. Beer and wine donated pursuant to this subdivision may be sold by the nonprofit organization only for consumption on the premises of the fundraising event, under a license issued by the department to the nonprofit organization pursuant to this division.
(2) Beer or wine donated and sold pursuant to this subdivision shall bear a label identifying its producer and stating that the beer or wine is homemade and not available for sale or for consumption off the licensed premises. The beer or wine is not required to comply with other labeling requirements under this division. However, nothing in this paragraph authorizes the use of any false or misleading information on a beer or wine label.
(3) A nonprofit organization established for the purpose of promoting home production of beer or wine, or whose membership is composed primarily of home brewers or home winemakers, shall not be eligible to sell beer or wine pursuant to this subdivision.
(d) Except as provided in subdivision (c), this section does not authorize the sale or offering for sale by any person of any beer or wine produced pursuant to this section.
(e) Except as provided herein, nothing in this section authorizes any activity in violation of Section 23300, 23355, or 23399.1.

If you are not selling it at the festival, the festival does not sell tickets to the general public for profit (in other words you are not making money from the beer) then it would be covered under 23356.2(b)(1). the only hurdle is to make sure you are a bona fide exhibition.

I see your issue though. the venue is requesting you get a day licence, as it is probably the normal process for them for any other hirer that is serving alcohol.
I'm assuming you have spoken to them regarding the fact that them making you pursue a day licence has caused the ABC to deny the licence. Again looking it from the ABC's viewpoint - if a licence isn't actually needed for the event and you are asking them for one, which could then actually intitle you to sell beer, then ofcoarse they will deny it.

Can you go back to the ABC and explain the event, and question if you need a licence at all - and if you do not ask them for a official response so that you can take it to the venue and show them that a permit is not required.
 
A couple of things.....SCHF is an awesome event!! However I don't think we are really fooling anyone by calling it a "members only" event. Anyone can become a member and the reality is that the whole purpose of the CHA is to put on the homebrewers festival. The CHA, as far as I know, doesn't have any other events/meetings. I am on their mailing list/FB page and I very rarely hear from them. The new law will be great for homebrewers in the long run!! I am already scheduled to pour/donate at several non profit fundraisers.
Another potential wrinkle that I am not sure anyone has even thought about is that the event is in Ventura Co. Ventura Co. Environmental Health has been cracking down on festival style events and requiring all food/drink booths to have a Temporary Food Facility permit....which of course requires you to take THEIR class. A local homebrew club was barred from a local charity beer festival last summer for lack of a TFF permit. I am taking this class in a few weeks and have LOTS of questions to ask regarding the permit and homebrew clubs.

That is interesting about the TFF permit, please let me know what you learn. The members only has been discussed a lot, I my guess is that it is likely be tightened to requiring the clubs to provide their member list and those members may join the CHA only through the affiliated clubs. This is just my personal guess. The down side to that, is that the festival is a great place to meet the clubs and find one that fits your needs and wants. Its a tough position, but I bet they do away with allowing individuals from joining directly.
 
There should be little change to your circumsatnces and I do belive you are completely correct that it is the ABC's interpritation that is wrong


If you are not selling it at the festival, the festival does not sell tickets to the general public for profit (in other words you are not making money from the beer) then it would be covered under 23356.2(b)(1). the only hurdle is to make sure you are a bona fide exhibition.

Their argument on that point is that only the Judges can taste at the bona fide exhibition, and it idea that we call all members judges is a no go.

At any rate you and I seem to be on the same page, too bad your in New Zealand, otherwise I'd ask you to call your representative.
 
There should be little change to your circumsatnces and I do belive you are completely correct that it is the ABC's interpritation that is wrong


If you are not selling it at the festival, the festival does not sell tickets to the general public for profit (in other words you are not making money from the beer) then it would be covered under 23356.2(b)(1). the only hurdle is to make sure you are a bona fide exhibition.

I see your issue though. the venue is requesting you get a day licence, as it is probably the normal process for them for any other hirer that is serving alcohol.
I'm assuming you have spoken to them regarding the fact that them making you pursue a day licence has caused the ABC to deny the licence. Again looking it from the ABC's viewpoint - if a licence isn't actually needed for the event and you are asking them for one, which could then actually intitle you to sell beer, then ofcoarse they will deny it.

Can you go back to the ABC and explain the event, and question if you need a licence at all - and if you do not ask them for a official response so that you can take it to the venue and show them that a permit is not required.

Both those approaches have been and are continuing to be pursued.
 
Their argument on that point is that only the Judges can taste at the bona fide exhibition, and it idea that we call all members judges is a no go.

At any rate you and I seem to be on the same page, too bad your in New Zealand, otherwise I'd ask you to call your representative.

I could call the US embassy :D
 
That is a hard one then, if it is a private event and the beer is being provided free of charge then I don't think it should fall under this new charity law. It would be the same as every second person bringing a doxen beers along and putting them in a communial cooler(s).
In the past what did you require permit wise to run your festival?

This was my interpretation as well..
 
The issue is that we are not selling any beer or raising funds. The festival is a members only club event, and the beer is given away to members. Clubs are not allowed to charge for their beer. However, since we charge an annual membership due the ABC sees it as indirect sales of alcohol. The membership dues pay for the Buses, the site rental, the booths, the insurance, and the security.

The harder sell is going to be when the NHC wants to come back to CA. Not only do you have to be a member but you also have to pay for the "conference". The NHC isn't even free to members!! I can totally see how the ABC could interpret that as indirectly paying for beer.
On another note we discussed at our club meeting that if the SCHF is cancelled that we all go to Casitas anyways. The campsites are paid for and there isn't any reason you can't have an "informal" festival.
 
From the CHA: "Positive news today, but we are not done yet! The Assembly Committee on Governmental Organization Chair and Vice Chair sent a joint letter to ABC asking for their assistance to for our Festival and other similar events. The request asked that our event and others be allowed to move forward for this year, until the law can be clarified.


Positive news, but we must remember that the Committee cannot require ABC to act as the Committee wishes--they can ask for assistance. ABC must still respond, and they may respond in the negative. Or, they may place conditions on us that do not allow the festival to move forward as we have operated in the past. We will have to wait and see.


So, keep the letters, phone calls, faxes and emails going out to legislators. It is critical that all legislators understand how much our festival means to us. And we are making a difference!
 
used to go to that thing every year when it was at Lake Skinner'
shame to see it has come to this

well when you change a law seems they can interpret it the way they want so you need to write them better and this just may be what has happened.

time to get proactive and start writing letters guys
 
What really sucks is that the committee drafted the change to relax homebrew laws allowing charitable organizations to sell homebrew at events, but the ABC's interpretation locked it down further. Under the current ABC interpretation NHC will never be allowed to happen in CA again. The AHA is also currently involved as they were actually looking at CA for NHC 2015.
 
Hello All -

I am a beer festival organizer in California.

I just spoke to our county health department and, chances are, it is still not legal for you to sell/donate homebrew to a public charity event or beer festival under health codes.

1) Has your kitchen/homebrewery been certified as required under AB 1616, the California Homemade Food Act? Probably not.

2) I'm not even sure that a homebrewery would qualify, as the only foods approved to qualify under this act are uncooked foods.

It looks to me that this issue needs to be further worked out, but for now I am still not letting homebrewers serve at events. I am waiting for a callback from Assm G.O. to clarify.
 
Here is Asm Daly's response:

!!!AB1425-dalyreply.jpg
 
Awesome response on the letter, cool!

In speaking to another homebrewer who is dealing with the ambiguous bull**** from 1425, his county health department is making him go through food safety training and apply for a TFP, a temporary food permit in order to donate. None of this is mentioned in statute and a professional brewer does not have to go through this training or get a TFP to serve beer at a beer festival.

All TRPs have to be declared on the TFF (that's the form you use to apply to the health department to do an event with food/beverages) as each TFP comes with a fee. The health department then evaluates the server (the homebrewer, in this case) to determine if the product (beer) is low risk or high risk, with high risk costing more money. There is nothing in the guidance on a TFP that mentions beer for high risk or low risk.

The health department has received no guidance from the state on this, they are just making it up.
 
Awesome response on the letter, cool!

In speaking to another homebrewer who is dealing with the ambiguous bull**** from 1425, his county health department is making him go through food safety training and apply for a TFP, a temporary food permit in order to donate. None of this is mentioned in statute and a professional brewer does not have to go through this training or get a TFP to serve beer at a beer festival.

All TRPs have to be declared on the TFF (that's the form you use to apply to the health department to do an event with food/beverages) as each TFP comes with a fee. The health department then evaluates the server (the homebrewer, in this case) to determine if the product (beer) is low risk or high risk, with high risk costing more money. There is nothing in the guidance on a TFP that mentions beer for high risk or low risk.

The health department has received no guidance from the state on this, they are just making it up.
In regards to the the health permits...talking to Ventura County Enviro Health they don't enforce the CA Food Code at Lake Casitas because it is technically a federal facility (Bureau of Reclaimation). So why do we need a state ABC permit on federal land? I don't know if SCHF has looked into this. I did some poking around and it appears that the state doesn't have the power to regulate alcohol (issue permits) on FEDERAL property such as military bases, national parks, etc. Anyone know?
 
Your answer lies in the ABC Act of 2011.

http://www.abc.ca.gov/forms/ABCAct_2011.pdf

I glanced it and it looks like states have jurisdiction on federal land except when it comes to concessions and military bases. But, hey, that's a thick document and there might be more details on exactly this in the CA section (B&P code??)

It also looks like the Commerce Clause (U.S. Constitution: Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) trumps 21A.

This is the summary of the 21st Amendment:
I. IN GENERAL
1. Generally
2. Effect of repeal of Eighteenth Amendment
3. Congress’ right to legislate in field of intoxicants
II. STATE POWER TO REGULATE INTOXICATING LIQUORS
A. In General
4. Generally
5. Effect of commerce clause
6. Effect of Supremacy Clause
7. Effect of equal protection clause
8. Effect of due process clause
9. Power over lands subject to federal jurisdiction

And here's the specifics

9. Power over lands subject to federal jurisdiction
Though Twenty-first Amendment may have increased power of
states as to regulation of importation of intoxicating liquors, it did not
increase jurisdiction of state so as to extend to possession of national
government lying within state, jurisdiction over which possession is in
national government. Collins v Yosemite Park & Curry Co. (1938) 304
US 518, 82 L Ed 1502, 58 S Ct 1009; Johnson v Yellow Cab Transit Co.
(1943, CA10 Okla) 137 F2d 274, affd (1944) 321 US 383, 88 L Ed 814,
64 S Ct 622.
With respect to concessionaire which operated hotels, camps, and
stores in national park, exclusive jurisdiction was in United States,
so that state was without power to regulate alcoholic beverages and
Twenty-first Amendment was not applicable. Collins v Yosemite Park
& Curry Co. (1938) 304 US 518, 82 L Ed 1502, 58 S Ct 1009.
Section 2 of Twenty-first Amendment was designed only to
augment powers of state to regulate importation of liquor destined for
use, distribution or consumption in its own territory, not to increase
its jurisdiction; absent appropriate express reservation, Twenty-first
Amendment confers no power on state to regulate, whether by licensing,
taxation, or otherwise, importation of distilled spirits into territory
over which United States exercises exclusive jurisdiction; state’s
interest in regulating importation into state of liquor purchased by
individuals on military bases did not extend its territorial jurisdiction
so as to permit regulation of transactions between distillers and post
exchanges, ship stores, and officers’ clubs; thus, state lacked power to
regulate liquor sold to officers’ clubs, ship stores, and post exchanges
located on military bases within state under exclusive jurisdiction of
United States. United States v State Tax Com. (1973) 412 US 363, 37
L Ed 2d 1, 93 S Ct 2183.
Twenty-first Amendment does not preclude imposition of state
sales tax on liquor sales on military installations within state over
which state shares concurrent jurisdiction with United States. United
States v Tax Comm’n of Mississippi (1975) 421 US 599, 44 L Ed 2d 404,
95 S Ct 1872.
 
The 2014 Southern California Homebrew Fest has been cancelled. Too sad. A victory for the neo-prohibitionist. The dominos can start falling. AHA San Diego? I doubt it. Thanks to those of you who took the time to write your reps.
 
The 2014 Southern California Homebrew Fest has been cancelled. Too sad. A victory for the neo-prohibitionist. The dominos can start falling. AHA San Diego? I doubt it. Thanks to those of you who took the time to write your reps.

While I am bummed the festival was cancelled this year I try to think "big picture". I have never really liked that both the SCHF and the NHC were only open to "members". How are we supposed to spread the love of brewing and craft beer if we continue to have festivals that are "members only"? My hope is that non brewing related non-profits see the opportunity that AB 1425 presents and take full advantage of it and sponsor craft/homebrew festivals that are open to EVERYBODY. Personally I am pouring donated homebrew at three different non-profit fundraisers in the next two months thanks to the new law. Just off the top of my head I figure the sales of my beer will have helped raise something around 1K for some very worthwhile charities. Not to mention that we also get a tax deduction for our donation!!:mug:
 
While I am bummed the festival was cancelled this year I try to think "big picture". I have never really liked that both the SCHF and the NHC were only open to "members". How are we supposed to spread the love of brewing and craft beer if we continue to have festivals that are "members only"? My hope is that non brewing related non-profits see the opportunity that AB 1425 presents and take full advantage of it and sponsor craft/homebrew festivals that are open to EVERYBODY. Personally I am pouring donated homebrew at three different non-profit fundraisers in the next two months thanks to the new law. Just off the top of my head I figure the sales of my beer will have helped raise something around 1K for some very worthwhile charities. Not to mention that we also get a tax deduction for our donation!!:mug:

Im glad you are donating to charity, and that was the intent of the new law. However, it is wrong for the ABC to use this to deny Homebrew Clubs the right to gather and share information and homebrew. Even the lawmakers state that was not their intent.

I really enjoyed meeting so many brewers and tasting their brews.
 
I wonder if CHA/AHA will be able to get the law changed? Maybe they can carve out an exemption specifically for the SCHF and NHC? I don't see them removing the prohibition of homebrew related charities. It would be too easy to abuse it. Anyone of us could start a homebrewing non-profit, sell beer at events, and use that money to pay the "board of directors".
 
So angry... This is the one event I look forward to enough each year to have a standing agreement with SWMBO that I can always attend. And now it's screwed.

Grr...

Yep. I had the same arrangement. I can't belief the ABC would do this even after the law makers told them it was not the intent of the law. It was probably a representative from the Ventura Office, but Jerry Brown should un-appoint his ABC Director Timothy Gorsuch for allowing this. Instead, they probably think its a victory.
 
So, if you have reservations please cancel them. Dual purpose. 1. Any incident would damage our near spotless record 2. Show we are needed. The SoCal home brew assoc is planning multiple events. Our club is festing elsewhere. A different campground it wont be the same.
 
So, if you have reservations please cancel them. Dual purpose. 1. Any incident would damage our near spotless record 2. Show we are needed. The SoCal home brew assoc is planning multiple events. Our club is festing elsewhere. A different campground it wont be the same.

So is the new event going to be a club camping trip, everyone provids their own refreshments :D Still don't get how they can really inforce the new law onto you - basically everyone is meeting in a particular place to share homebrew - no one is selling. Really the issue was mostly the Lake requiring you to get a permit that you don't need, which tipped the ABC off to something that wasn't actually happening! Good luck on finding a new venue that understands what you are doing!
 
So is anyone still planning to go to Casitas for the weekend?

I know I have been able to pull a few local HBC's into pouring at a charity event in lieu of Casitas. Since we live in Ventura...it's just easier.
 
April 4, 2014

Dear California AHA Member,

Your action is needed now to ensure passage of AB 2609. (Note: bill text will be amended from what is currently posted.)

Last year, the California legislature passed a well-intentioned bill, AB 1425, which had the unfortunate consequence of making it illegal for nonprofit homebrewer organizations to host homebrew events like the Southern California Homebrewers Festival and the AHA National Homebrewers Conference in the state of California.

If passed, AB 2609 will once again allow the California Homebrewers Association to organize the Southern California Homebrewers Festival, an annual event attended by 2,000 homebrewers that had to be cancelled this year due to the change in law. Without passage of AB 2609, the AHA may be forced to cancel or relocate the 2015 AHA National Homebrewers Conference planned for San Diego.

How You Can Help

AB 2609 is scheduled for a hearing before the Assembly Governmental Organization Committee on Wednesday, April 9 at 11:00 a.m. Please send a signed letter of support for AB 2609 addressed to the chair of the committee, Assembly Member Isadore Hall, III, as an attachment to an email to AB 2609 sponsor Assembly Member Brian Nestande’s Chief of Staff Nanette Farag. If any of the committee members represent your district, please also send a letter addressed to your Assembly Member.

You may use this sample letter (see below my signature) to customize your own letter of support. It is important to be polite and respectful in your message.

In addition, please call the Assembly Member for your district and request that they support AB 2609.

Thank you for your support of homebrewers. Your action could make the difference in whether or not this legislation becomes law. Please forward this message to other California residents and businesses that may be interested in supporting this bill.

Sincerely,

Gary Glass
Director
American Homebrewers Association
April 4, 2014
Honorable Isadore Hall, III
Capitol Office
P.O. Box 942849
Room 3123
Sacramento, CA 94249-00964

Dear Chair Isadore Hall, III:

Subject: Please support AB 2609

I am requesting your support for AB 2609 on behalf of California’s homebrewers.

Homebrewers love to share with and learn from one another. California’s homebrewers have been fortunate to have events like the Southern California Homebrewers Festival and the Northern California Homebrewers Festival. These events strengthen the homebrewing community and help individual homebrewers refine their craft.

Unfortunately, the passage last year of AB 1425 led to the cancellation of the 24th annual Southern California Homebrewers Association Festival scheduled for early May, and could threaten the 37th annual American Homebrewers Association National Homebrewers Conference planned for 2015. Passage of AB 2609 would restore the ability of homebrewer organizations to host events for homebrewers.

Please show your support for California’s homebrewing community by passing AB 2609.

Sincerely,

NAME/ADDRESS
 

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