So far Kegging SUCKS for this newbie!

[GulfCoastGirl]

I bought a Pin Lock keg kit from kegconnection and had some issues. I hooked up the keg and there were some gas leaks at a weld on the regulator. It was more than tightened all the way down and I sent pictures of the leak at the weld (visible and audible leak).


Then the replacement regulator they sent me had a ball lock connector... GRRRR.... I contacted them and they sent out a new one.

So I finally got it all setup and put a keg of hefeweizen on 30 psi for 24 hours and then backed it down to 12 psi. A week later I went to pour a glass and boy did it SUCK! There was a head... but I suspect that was only due to the 5 ft. beer line delivering some foam. The beer itself was flat. A week later.... still flat! YUCK! I have sprayed all the connections and there is no leak so I know it's getting gas.

I figure this is just a newbie learning the ropes stuff and I ordered another keg with a dual regulator as I have another batch ready to keg. It will arrive this week and I'm hoping to have better luck.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not blaming Kegconnection in any way.... far from it. **** happens and they have been great in their response to me.... I'm well aware that the problems with the beer itself are all on me.

Since I'm new to all this I'm not that familiar with the whole "vols" thing and I was hoping to just squeak by with the 30 PSI for 24 hours and then backing down to 12 psi for a week. That didn't turn out so great with my first try so I'm looking for some advice.

My next batch is a Belgian Wit. I ordered the 2 keg kit with 10 ft. beer lines (they have picnic taps). What should I do to make sure this beer gets carbonated correctly? Is it just a matter of more time?

I am drinking the flat hefeweizen because hey... it's beer and I made it but I don't want the next batch to turn out this way. Can someone explain the VOLS thing in simple english? I don't get the charts.... because I don't get what VOLS mean? It might say 2.3 Vols..... but what does that mean?

I do think it's all about my kegging method as my bottled beer comes out carbonated just right.

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Old_mil_guy]

When you bottle, you use a little priming sugar?

 

[GulfCoastGirl]

When you bottle, you use a little priming sugar?

Yes. I also let them condition for at least 3 weeks prior to refrigerating a few and trying them.

Funny thing is I thought I might have a problem with carbing in the keg since I don't understand the whole VOLS thing yet and so I used priming sugar in the beer I kegged too.... just as an extra measure to help make sure it got carbonated.

I know there is gas in the keg because a) it is pushing beer and b) when I remove the gas line and push the poppet valve (pin lock), gas comes out of the keg. I just don't understand why after 2 weeks the beer is not carbonated.... and I mean NOT AT ALL. I do get a foamy head.... but again.... short beer line. But when I hold the beer up to the light I see absolutely NO carb bubbles like I do with bottled beer and it's flat tasting.

This is why I think it goes back to understanding the VOLS thing. Perhaps the style of beer I have required more than 24 hours at 30 psi???? I'm totally lost here.

 

[Old_mil_guy]

What temp is keg at 30psi? Can you shake keg with pressure on?

 

[day_trippr]

Read this page. In a nutshell you'll know all you need wrt volumes of CO2 and what pressure vs temperature to use to hit desired carbonation levels...

Cheers!

 

[urbanmyth]

One volume of CO2 is one liter of CO2 (a gas) dissolved in one liter of liquid. So if a beer is carbed to 2.5 volumes, imagine there is two and a half bottles worth of gaseous CO2 forced into solution with the beer in the bottle.

 

[dbrewski]

I am not an expert. I have been kegging for 6-8 months, but have things working pretty smoothly after getting help here on the forums. Hopefully I am not insulting your intelligence by asking if you chilled the keg before trying to carb it. Here is a great page on force carbing. It has a chart of temps vs. pressures vs. volumes of CO2 in suspension. Having been through this cycle of trying to force carb, my advice is, I will do it if I am pressed (need to get a keg ready quick) but the results are unpredictable. Better results by setting the keg to 12 psi for a week or two. Short lines will result in nasty, uncarbed-tasting beer because the CO2 expands wildly and foams right out of the beer. The longer lines will help a lot. Hopefully they are 3/16" and not 1/4". Good luck!

 

[GulfCoastGirl]

What temp is keg at 30psi? Can you shake keg with pressure on?

OK... I feel like this is a trick question because of course I can shake the keg... I mean there isn't a boogey man stopping me from picking it up and shaking it... or is there?

In all seriousness though... I was curious if temperature had something to do with it but I didn't want to sound the fool by asking. The keg is in the fridge in my garage and I don't know what temp it is at.... although I will say that the bottles of beer I also have in the same fridge seem warmer than they did before I put the keg in there. So now I'll sound really stupid (I guess I deserve it for the wise crack earlier) when I ask.... can a keg change the temp of a fridge just by its mass (meaning I didn't adjust the temperature but it seems warmer in there?). It's just a cheap $400 garage fridge.... do I need to get a chest freezer? I already bought a Johnson control in anticipation of building a keezer this summer..... so I'm already set if you think that's the problem then I just need to buy the chest freezer.

One volume of CO2 is one liter of CO2 (a gas) dissolved in one liter of liquid. So if a beer is carbed to 2.5 volumes, imagine there is two and a half bottles worth of gaseous CO2 forced into solution with the beer in the bottle.

Darn it.... I just KNEW I should have paid more attention in school when they were teaching metrics!!!! I'm guessing I can't just sub out gallons with liters can I? What I read you saying is that a vol is a liter and so if it says 2.5 vols then I need to figure out how many liters my 5 gallon keg is and there should be 2.5 vols for each liter. Is that correct?

If I have that correct... how do I know how much 2.5 vols of gas is? I mean I can do math ( actually I love math) but I don't get how I know how to measure the gas? The gauge isn't exactly accurate and it's all in PSI and that is varying right? Could you help a girl out with the mathematical formula? I don't need you to DO the math for me... just give me a heads up on the formula... like x+y=z.... what's the math?

Read this page. In a nutshell you'll know all you need wrt volumes of CO2 and what pressure vs temperature to use to hit desired carbonation levels...

Cheers!

Thanks for the link... I'll check it out and hopefully it will be in some plain English because I really feel like this should be easy to understand..... I mean we are talking about kegging beer here.... not like I'm trying to launch a rocket with beer to the moon

I am not an expert. I have been kegging for 6-8 months, but have things working pretty smoothly after getting help here on the forums. Hopefully I am not insulting your intelligence by asking if you chilled the keg before trying to carb it. Here is a great page on force carbing. It has a chart of temps vs. pressures vs. volumes of CO2 in suspension. Having been through this cycle of trying to force carb, my advice is, I will do it if I am pressed (need to get a keg ready quick) but the results are unpredictable. Better results by setting the keg to 12 psi for a week or two. Short lines will result in nasty, uncarbed-tasting beer because the CO2 expands wildly and foams right out of the beer. The longer lines will help a lot. Hopefully they are 3/16" and not 1/4". Good luck!

LOL... I'm just happy to get any help at all.... no chance at insulting my intelligence as it's about a ZERO in terms of knowing what I'm doing here.

I really suspect the temperature has something to do with it now that you are the second person to mention it. The keg was in the fridge for a week before it ever got gas hooked up due to the initial problem I had with the regulator. I left the keg in the fridge while I was waiting for the replacement..... but to be honest.... that fridge used to make bottled beer really cold and they aren't that way now that the keg is in there so I'm thinking temperature could be a factor as well as anything else I did wrong.




Thank you all for your responses! I know the problem is ME and not the equipment.... I just need to figure it out so I REALLY appreciate all your help and advice

 

[JuanMoore]

The reason your beer tastes flat isn't because it's undercarbed, it's because you're pouring from an unbalanced system (your lines are likely too short for the serving pressure). The carbonation is being lost, in the form of foam, before you have a chance to drink it.

As far as vol of CO2 goes, it takes a little trial and error to learn what 2 vol tastes/feels like compared to 3 vol. Most commercial beers are carbed between 2.5 and 3 vol, so that might help put it in perspective for you. Next time you're drinking a commercial beer, notice the carbonation level and then use google to see if the carb level is published. A lot of them are.

Figuring out what temperature your beer is at will help greatly in determining what your carb level is. At 34F your 12psi serving pressure is about 2.73 vol, but at 44F it's only 2.3 vol. Adding 5 gal of warm beer to your fridge can change the temp quite a bit, but it should settle out within a day or two at the most.

 

[GulfCoastGirl]

The reason your beer tastes flat isn't because it's undercarbed, it's because you're pouring from an unbalanced system (your lines are likely too short for the serving pressure). The carbonation is being lost, in the form of foam, before you have a chance to drink it.

As far as vol of CO2 goes, it takes a little trial and error to learn what 2 vol tastes/feels like compared to 3 vol. Most commercial beers are carbed between 2.5 and 3 vol, so that might help put it in perspective for you. Next time you're drinking a commercial beer, notice the carbonation level and then use google to see if the carb level is published. A lot of them are.

Figuring out what temperature your beer is at will help greatly in determining what your carb level is. At 34F your 12psi serving pressure is about 2.73 vol, but at 44F it's only 2.3 vol. Adding 5 gal of warm beer to your fridge can change the temp quite a bit, but it should settle out within a day or two at the most.

Thank you so much for confirming that I needed longer beer lines. I suspected as much and ordered 10 ft. lines which should arrive this week. Why they even sell 5 ft. lines is beyond me????

Now... on to the Vols. I see you tried to explain it... but so far NO ONE has been able to either tell me or explain to me what a VOL is. I get the liters per liters..... but how do I measure that in gas? My gauge only tells me PSI.... there is no setting for "set to 2.5 vols" so I still have no idea what you all are calculating and setting on the gas guage to set VOLS.

This shouldn't be rocket science right? No one else seems to have this problem.... I must just be an idiot

 

[JuanMoore]

Now... on to the Vols. I see you tried to explain it... but so far NO ONE has been able to either tell me or explain to me what a VOL is. I get the liters per liters..... but how do I measure that in gas? My gauge only tells me PSI.... there is no setting for "set to 2.5 vols" so I still have no idea what you all are calculating and setting on the gas guage to set VOLS.

This shouldn't be rocket science right? No one else seems to have this problem.... I must just be an idiot

One vol of carbonation is one liter of CO2 at atmospheric pressure dissolved in one liter of fluid. This doesn't really help to determine carbonation levels though, since how much will stay dissolved in solution is dependent on both pressure and temperature. This is why we use handy charts like the 2 that have already been linked to determine carbonation levels, or more commonly to determine the proper serving pressure to use at a given beer temp to achieve a desired carbonation level. That's why I said earlier that you need to know the beer temp to be able to calculate the carb level.

Here's a link that's just the chart and nothing else-
http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

 

[jetmac]

Now... on to the Vols. I see you tried to explain it... but so far NO ONE has been able to either tell me or explain to me what a VOL is. I get the liters per liters..... but how do I measure that in gas? My gauge only tells me PSI.... there is no setting for "set to 2.5 vols" so I still have no idea what you all are calculating and setting on the gas guage to set VOLS.

Everyone uses a chart. Follow the link Juan gave you.

Thank you so much for confirming that I needed longer beer lines. I suspected as much and ordered 10 ft. lines which should arrive this week. Why they even sell 5 ft. lines is beyond me????

FWIT I started with short lines and then moved to 10ft lines to no avail. So I said "screw it" and bought 20 ft of 3/16" beer line. I installed that then I kept cutting off a foot at a time until I got to where the flow was good and the head was good. 18ft

 

[alestateyall]

Until you get longer lines you can turn down the pressure when serving. Bleed off the pressure, set regulator to 3-4 psi, then serve. Once your beer is fully carbed you can leave it at serving pressure for a few days without a problem. I once left the gas off for 2 weeks on one keg and didn't notice until the beer was just trickling out. It didn't go flat. I only drank a few pints from that keg during the 2 weeks which is why I didn't notice sooner.

Also you can hold the glass and cobra at eye level when pouring that helps a little.

10' lines at a minimum are the permanent solution. I serve at 12 psi with 10' lines with very little foam (1/2" - 3/4") at the top of the glass. Most of my foam is from pouring the last portion straight down the middle (not angled on the glass).

I had very similar problems. Being new to kegging is frustrating. The good news is you will have it figured out pretty quick and then the benefits are awesome. I love the clarity I get with kegging.

 

[Bobby_M]

So volumes....or VOL... Ever hear the expression 10 pounds of chit in a 5 pound bag? If you take 10 gallons of gaseous CO2 and compress it into 5 gallons of beer, the carbonation level is at 2 volumes. I know math and beer don't mix, but you can imagine 10/5=2. 15 gallons of CO2 in 5 gallons of beer is 3 volumes. It doesn't really matter. The measurement is rather arbitrary as far as a beer drinker's experience goes. Just know that most beer that is considered carbonated is between 2-3 volumes. I use 2.5 for most beers. Hit the charts to figure out the ideal pressure but it requires that you know what the stable temp in the fridge is. You can get a fridge thermometer for a couple bucks.

It is possible that your low pressure gauge on the reg is reading a little high and perhaps what you think is 12psi is really 9. Obviously in that case, the beer will never be as carbonated as you're anticipating. It's probably more an issue of time on the gas and losing some of it during the pour. The suggestion to hold the picnic faucet up as high as you can is a good one. That slows the pour down in order to retain more co2.

 

[P-J]

GulfCoastGirl,

Some things to read that I'm sure will help you.

This is an article written a while ago by Brad Amidzich, the inventor of Foward Seal faucets.
How I can get a better pour out of my Kegerator?

This thread The cure for your short hose troubles has a great suggestion in the first post that will allow you to control the pour rate. It is well worth the read as it basically is the Flow Gate mentioned in the first link.

Hope this helps you.
P-J.

 

[Yooper]

I think there are a couple of things that can help you that are easy. The first is to stick a thermometer in the fridge and get an idea of the temperature! At 12 psi, if your fridge is 50 degrees, the beer will be pretty flat. But at 34 degrees, 12 psi will be very well carbed. So that's how you pick your pressure. Mine is 40 degrees at 12 psi- perfect for almost any beer for me.

Second, I agree with BobbyM. Maybe your regulator is reading a little low. Go ahead and turn it up a bit. The longer lines will help tremendously!

 

[Darwin18]

So I finally got it all setup and put a keg of hefeweizen on 30 psi for 24 hours and then backed it down to 12 psi.

These are extremely helpful and have a lot of great information for people starting out kegging:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/sticky-kegging-faqs-43347/

Secondly, I know a lot of people on here blast their keg with high psi, then shake the hell out of it, and turn it down to serving pressure, but that's really not a great technique especially with someone new to kegging. I strongly suggest setting the CO2 psi to the serving psi. Give it two to three weeks and you'll be golden. That extra time in the cold fridge will also greatly clarify your beer. You just need to be a little patient.

 

[Antler]

I had this problem. I have everything to keg except for my keezer. Just to try it out once I put a liter of beer in a keg and set it to 12psi at room temp and shook the **** out of it. Couple days later I put the keg and tank outside overnight (3-4*C, no fridge yet). The next evening I tried to pour a pint from a picnic tap with about 5ft line. Foam everywhere!