Smoked Rye Cream Ale

[OhSoHumuLonely]

Hey guys, I was hoping to make a BMC-lover-friendly cream ale with some extra, subtle flavor involved. I also plan to use some hops my in-laws have growing on their property (the beer is for them, mostly, and they're BMC types). I want to add their hops late so that they get the flavor but it doesn't affect the bitterness too much since I don't know acid percentages and such. For the additional malt flavor, I have some smoked malt and some rye malt, and thought about adding just a touch of both. Here is the recipe I was considering:

5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.1 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 3 11.4 %
4.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 4 2.9 %
4.0 oz Smoked Malt (6.1 SRM) Grain 5 2.9 %
8.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 5.7 %

0.50 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 11.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Home Grown Hops - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 ?? IBUs

Est ABV: 5.2% ABV
Est OG: 1.048
Approx IBU: 17.6
Est FG: 1.009

Wondering if this looks like a reasonable recipe, or if you think it'll come out nasty. Any suggestions?

 

[gravityspiral]

I'm no expert but it sounds good to me. The corn (in my opinion) will pair well with the rye and smoked malt. The only thing I would suggest would be to leave out the sugar, or sub it with some candi sugar (maybe even brown sugar)

 

[SpeedYellow]

Having made many smoked beers with every smoked grain out there, I can assure you there is absolutely no way, 0.0% chance, that you'll get anything from 4oz smoked malt. Nada. De rien. Uberhaupt nichts. Unless you mistakenly use peat-smoked malt, of course.

You'd have to be really specific about that malt (type, maltster, age) and your goals to get appropriate suggestions.

 

[OhSoHumuLonely]

Okay, well, I can add more smoked malt. I just had thought that in something as light as a cream ale, if I wanted a subtle flavor, 3% of the grain bill would be enough to do it.

It's Briess malt, and they sell it as "smoked malt," but MoreBeer sells the Briess product as "Cherrywood Smoked Malt." I don't know how to tell how old it is besides the fact that I just ordered it less than a week ago.

So, maybe I could double the smoked malt or even more? Actually, thinking about it, I'm kind of considering removing the smoked malt all together and trying to a more rye flavor.

I have come to realize that a lot of what I'm told on this site is spot on, so I'll be sure to take all ideas into consideration.

 

[Brickman]

Smoke is a bitter flavor almost all of the time. In a light beer such as a cream ale it may not go well with the mild profile of the beer. Most, if not all smoked beer that I have had have been amber or darker with a fair amount of malt to offset the smoke. I know others may have used it in light beers but I would just stick with the rye and see how you like it.

Mark

 

[Schemy]

I used a pound of the Briess smoked malt in a smoked roggenbier last year with about the same OG as you have, and got a very subtle smoke. It is was so subtle, that when I rebrew it next month I'm going to use 2 pounds.

I would up the percentage, maybe at the very least do a half pound, but I'd suggest higher.

Also I'm guessing that you are using the sugar to dry out the beer to accentuate the rye and smoke character you are looking for. Correct?

 

[SpeedYellow]

I used 20% Briess cherrywood smoked in a Munich Helles, and nobody could tell it was even there. There was a little *something* but it wasn't recognizable as smoked malt. Strange, too, since the mash smelled very smoky. So 3%, or even 6%, is negligible. If you lucked into some super-fresh Briess perhaps you'll see slightly different results but who knows.

Like was said above, smoked malt works best with malty profiles, but you'll be fine since you're just looking for a hint of smoke.

 

[OhSoHumuLonely]

Okay, so I'll definitely up the smoked malt. How about the rye for a not-overly-power rye flavor?

 

[SpeedYellow]

The rye - you won't detect that either, not even close. My last smoked rye was 26% rye, and the rye wasn't bold or anything odd. Subtle.

 

[OhSoHumuLonely]

What thinks you guys about this:

4 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 43.2 %
2 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 21.6 %
1 lbs Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 10.8 %
1 lbs Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.8 %
1 lbs Smoked Malt (6.1 SRM) Grain 10.8 %
0.50 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 11.2 IBUs
4.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 2.7 %
1.00 oz Home Grown Hops [??? %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 4.1 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.1 %
Bitterness: 15.3 IBUs
Est Color: 4.6 SRM

Think that sounds better? Too much of anything?

 

[Schemy]

Brew it!

 

[SpeedYellow]

My only concern about the recipe is that you may be trying to do too much, which results in your base malt being just 43% of grist. When this happens to me, I realize I must have not had a clear vision about what I'm seeking so I generally table the recipe until I can figure it out. But hey, that's just me. It could well be the best beer ever.

 

[OhSoHumuLonely]

Was working off this recipe, but substituted some rye malt for the base malt.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/cream-three-crops-cream-ale-66503/

And it's not like I'm in a hurry to brew this. It will be the next beer I brew, but I won't brew it until I've figured it what I want to do with it.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Maybe I'm saying that if you aren't familiar with cream ale, ryes, and smoked beers, you'd likely be better off just making 3 batches instead of cramming 3 experiments into one batch. Just a thought. Plus it's a reason to brew 2 more times.

 

[eulipion2]

Sounds really good. I think it could work. Go with the 2 lbs rye, 1 lb smoked malt, and see how it tastes. Briess cherrywood malt can be strong when fresh, but at one pound should be subtle enough. Brew it and make adjustments in version 2.0.