SMaSH recipe critique

[Hayden512]

Planning on doing a SMaSH pale ale this weekend with Golden Promise and El Dorado. Just wanted to get your guys input on a recipe I threw together today. Aiming for balanced APA leaning maybe more on the hoppy side. However I'm looking for more flavor/aroma profile with just bitterness to balance. I would like to be able to taste the Golden Promise as I've never used it before. Let me know what you think.

10 lbs 8.0 oz Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 97.7 %
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 5 23.3 IBUs
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 11.0 IBUs
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 6.0 IBUs
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Flame Out Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9

Mashing @ 152oF

OG - 1.052
FG - 1.011
40.3 IBUs
AbV - 5.4%

 

[BigMack]

I'm not super familiar with El Dorado so I can't really comment on that, but I will say I personally like to mash a little higher for SMaSH pale ales. For my taste they have dried out a little too much if I don't mash around 154. I also do like my APA's to have a little more malt presence (even in a SMaSH) than some do though so my preference might not be the norm.

 

[Hayden512]

I was going back and forth on knocking my mash temp up a few degrees so I might take that advice.

El Dorado description -
El Dorado is an exceptional new dual purpose hop with both high Alpha Acid and intense flavors and aromas. As a bittering hop El Dorado lends a firm but balanced bitterness. This hop has bright tropical fruit flavors and aromas of pear, watermelon, and stone fruit. 14-16% Alpha Acid.

 

[BigMack]

I've used it once or twice in brews with other hops, but it was never the star. I'll be interested to see how this turns out for you.

 

[mrdauber64]

I just bought a pound of El Dorado and a sack of Golden Promise. I was thinking about doing the same combination. I love the taste of Golden Promise, all of my IPA's are 100% GP. It always leaves a little sweetness while still drying out enough for an IPA(normal FG at kegging is 1.008).

I don't have any input as far as the recipe besides it looks solid! Please post the results. I'm interested to see if it is worth doing, or I should mix the hops with something else.

 

[Yesfan]

The numbers in the first post...are those the numbers plugged into Beersmith?


When I entered my recipe in Beersmith, Beersmith has the AA% of El Dorado listed as 15% by default instead of the 15.7% listed on Yakima Valley's site (where my hops came from). I noticed a bit of difference of IBUs between 15 and 15.7%. I don't know if .7% would make a difference, but felt obligated to reply in case it did.

 

[brew703]

I brewed the same SMaSH on 4/1. I bottled on 4/17. Tasted one yesterday and it's about ready.
I only brewed a one gallon batch just to try El Dorado. Here's my recipe:
2.3 lb GP
.08 @30
.18 @ 10
.2 @ 0
.75 dry hop for 5 days
OG: 1.050
FG: 1.012
ABV 4.98%
IBU 38
Yeast was Denny's (slurry)
With the taste I had yesterday it was weak. I do not find there is enough hop flavor or aroma. I figured using mostly late hop additions I would get good flavor and aroma but it was not there. It definitely doesn't taste like 38 IBU's.
My intent for this beer was to see if I liked EL Dorado and an attempt to see if my wife would like it.
I assume you are brewing 5 gallons- not sure if 3 oz of hops will be enough.
I'll pop the top on another one Friday to see if there is any change.

 

[Hayden512]

@yesfan yeah those are from beersmith. I didn't recognize the difference. Thanks for the heads up, I'll update it.

@brew703 huh. With the description of the hop I figured it'd be more potent. Let me know how it is Friday. I'm planning on brewing Saturday so I'll have time to adjust.

 

[brew703]

Yeah, I was expecting more flavor and aroma. I'll post back on Friday afternoon.
I double checked my hops and they are 15.7AAU. they came from Farmhouse Brewing.

 

[Hayden512]

I just looked up the hops my homebrew store received and it looks like theirs from BSG are 12.5. Looks like I might be upping my hops

 

[brew703]

I just looked up the hops my homebrew store received and it looks like theirs from BSG are 12.5. Looks like I might be upping my hops

My wife ended up opening the bottle I put in my ferm chamber today so here's my assessment.
Still taste basically the same as the one I tried the other day. If I were to brew this again, which I probably will, I would up the zero addition and increase the dry hop by at least .5 oz maybe even a whole ounce. I just don't find there is much flavor from the hops. Definitely not what I am used to.

If I were you I would make the zero addition at least an ounce and the dry hop at least 1.5oz maybe two ounces.

Going through my notes, I over-estimated my boil off so I ended up with more wort than I wanted, which diluted the end product. That probably had an effect on the taste. I would still increase my hop additions by at least .5 oz to start. You can always taste after 5 days and if not sufficient do a 2nd dry hop. I would also add some calcium and gypsum to your mash. I think I added a 1/4 t of each to the mash. I don't check ph but use Bru n water to get me close. Next batch I would likely go by what bru n water says for a pale ale profile.

The most important thing for me is my wife likes it so that's a plus. She is a Ultra drinker so that tells you a lot.
Keep us posted with your results.

 

[Yesfan]

I'm basing mine off of Northern's Simcoe Smash recipe. Here's what mine looks like after plugging in the numbers in Beersmith.

10lbs of 2 Row, 2.7 oz of El Dorado

Mash at 152F (might go for 154 after reading more of this thread)

Hop schedule. My Eldorado's hop AA is 14.97%, so....

.38 oz @ 60 min - 21.3 IBUs
.53 oz @ 15 min - 14.7 IBUs
.79 oz @ 5 min - 8.8 IBUs
1 oz for dry hop*

Wyeast 1056 at 70F

Even though their recipe has less grain and uses 1272, I've read 1056 is a bit more neutral than 1272. I also wanted mine to have a bit more malt, so I shot for a 1.050 OG. According to Beersmith, I need to up the malt from 7.75lbs to 10 lbs to achieve this. I plugged in the numbers for the Simcoe Smash, and Beersmith tells me the bittering addition has an IBU of 21.4. So I think I'll keep that the same and adjust to the remaining additions so the total IBUs don't go over 50 IBUs (total IBUs is 44.8).

*My club is wanting some of us to brew some beers show casing some different hops, and I chose El Dorado. I'll get 4 oz total to work with, so would you all just using the remainder (2.3 oz for a dry hop addition) or stay with the 1 ounce?

 

[brew703]

@yesfan You brewing 5 gal? I don't know if 2.7oz will be sufficient but that's just me. If you have 4 oz, I would change your hop schedule to 10 and zero then dry hop with the rest.

To be honest, I'm quite disappointed with El Dorado.
I bought 4 oz so I'll have to do something with them. Next time I'll use Vienna malt and El dorado to get more malty flavor. I brewed a 1 gal batch and I used right under 1.5 oz. Definitely not enough.

If you take your numbers and plug them into the relative bitterness formula, then it shows you are at .9 which is more in line with an IPA. I plugged in my numbers and I was at the high end of the APA scale and it was no where near enough for me and I'm not a hop head. I wasn't trying to get a lot of bitterness. I wanted more flavor/aroma which I didn't get.

 

[applescrap]

Planning on doing a SMaSH pale ale this weekend with Golden Promise and El Dorado. Just wanted to get your guys input on a recipe I threw together today. Aiming for balanced APA leaning maybe more on the hoppy side. However I'm looking for more flavor/aroma profile with just bitterness to balance. I would like to be able to taste the Golden Promise as I've never used it before. Let me know what you think.

10 lbs 8.0 oz Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 97.7 %
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 5 23.3 IBUs
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 11.0 IBUs
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 6.0 IBUs
0.50 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Flame Out Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz El Dorado [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9

Mashing @ 152oF

OG - 1.052
FG - 1.011
40.3 IBUs
AbV - 5.4%

not overly familiar with pale ale recipes but this sounds really good. I love golden promise

 

[Yesfan]

@yesfan You brewing 5 gal? I don't know if 2.7oz will be sufficient but that's just me. If you have 4 oz, I would change your hop schedule to 10 and zero then dry hop with the rest.

To be honest, I'm quite disappointed with El Dorado.
I bought 4 oz so I'll have to do something with them. Next time I'll use Vienna malt and El dorado to get more malty flavor. I brewed a 1 gal batch and I used right under 1.5 oz. Definitely not enough.

If you take your numbers and plug them into the relative bitterness formula, then it shows you are at .9 which is more in line with an IPA. I plugged in my numbers and I was at the high end of the APA scale and it was no where near enough for me and I'm not a hop head. I wasn't trying to get a lot of bitterness. I wanted more flavor/aroma which I didn't get.

I'm still new to Beersmith, so bear with me. Is the relative bitterness the same as the "bitterness ratio" that's on the right part of the screen? I thought with the gravity and bitterness bars, to keep the arrows close to each other if you wanted a more balanced recipe.

I've plugged in the numbers from the Simcoe Smash recipe and I see where the bitterness ratio is at 1.134. The gravity (1.040) and IBUs (45.6) are at the edge of the recommended style which I selected as American Pale Ale since there was no Smash style to select.

So which one is correct? To keep the gravity/IBUs close to each other, or a higher number in the bitterness ratio?

 

[brew703]

I'm still new to Beersmith, so bear with me. Is the relative bitterness the same as the "bitterness ratio" that's on the right part of the screen? I thought with the gravity and bitterness bars, to keep the arrows close to each other if you wanted a more balanced recipe.

I've plugged in the numbers from the Simcoe Smash recipe and I see where the bitterness ratio is at 1.134. The gravity (1.040) and IBUs (45.6) are at the edge of the recommended style which I selected as American Pale Ale since there was no Smash style to select.

So which one is correct? To keep the gravity/IBUs close to each other, or a higher number in the bitterness ratio?

I mainly use Brewers Friend but do occasionally use Beersmith. I just found out about the bitterness ratio and not real sure how much weight should be put into it. I usually go by the IBU'S. Maybe someone who is more familiar with the ratio will chime in.

If the bitterness ratio is 1.134 then I would suspect it would be bitter but I'm really not sure. It's difficult to find the balance between hop bitterness and flavor.