Slow force carb takes FOREVER

[BadWolfBrewing]

I've been slow force-carbing for a couple years now, and I'm finally annoyed enough to ask the question.

I carb and serve at about 10 PSI, through 9' or so of beer line. I keep the keezer at a balmy 36-37 degsF.

First few times I kegged I tried to speed things up, and always overcarbed and had to futz with it for days, so I just carb at serving pressure.

Thing is though, it takes a really really long time, compared to what I've read. At 4 weeks, it is 'almost' there, but not quite. I like beers with high carb, but nothing extreme. My numbers should put me at about 2.5 volumes.

I don't rock it or anything, just burp it a few times to purge any O2 right after kegging.

So, why is this taking so long? I don't necessarily want to change the process, I'm just wondering why I am getting different results than what I read about.

Many thanks, have a good weekend

 

[billl]

If you overfill the kegs, that certainly slows it down.

If you want to speed it up without risking overcarb levels, just limit the time you keep the pressure high. eg instead of 24 hrs at 30, just leave it overnight and turn it down in the morning.

 

[opiate82]

4 weeks seems an awfully long time. Even my high-alcohol beers usually are carbbed in about 2 weeks with a "set-it-and-forget-it" method.

To speed things up you can try rocking and shaking. As long as you are set at serving pressure you won't overcarb it but it'll help get that C02 into the beer quicker. Another option is to put your gas onto the "beer out" post on your corny keg. That way the gas has to bubble up through the beer when it enters your keg, giving it more of a chance to get into the beer.

 

[Homercidal]

2 weeks for me is fairly carbed, but I tend to think of 3 weeks as being closer to terminal carbonation.

If I have a beer that really needs to be carbed faster, I sometimes fill and shake the keg and repeat as much as I dare, then lower the pressure to normal and let it finish on it's own.

 

[day_trippr]

2 weeks for me is fairly carbed, but I tend to think of 3 weeks as being closer to terminal carbonation.[...]

Agreed, two weeks is firmly in the ballpark but three is perfect - at least for beers in the 10-12 point FG range. Bigger beers take even longer.

The solution is a solid pipeline that allows carbing in the background...

Cheers!

 

[Jay-Brew]

Is there some kind of advantage to slow carbing? I carb mine at approximately 30 psi for two days and think it is just fine this way. Have never felt it was overcarbed as a result, or under for that matter.

 

[Hopper5000]

I am also one to do a tiered method setting it at about 30-40 and then dropping it down every day until at serving pressure. I am in agreement that having it really full will make it take longer to carb. If you truely like the set and forget method you can get a carbonation stone (same thing as an 02 stone) and that will greatly speed things up. That's how breweries carb it up so quickly.

 

[hunter_le five]

Is there some kind of advantage to slow carbing? I carb mine at approximately 30 psi for two days and think it is just fine this way. Have never felt it was overcarbed as a result, or under for that matter.

The advantage to slow carbing is that it is precise - there is no chance of over-carbing the beer.

With burst-carbing methods, there is not much precision, just a lot of guesswork. Not saying they don't work for experienced brewers, but there is significant chance for error and over carbonation if you leave the beer at elevated pressure levels for too long.




Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[okiedog]

The reasons for carbing at serving pressure are: 1. As mentioned above, your beer will be carbed at the level set by your serving pressure. 2. Better, smoother carbonation, ie. smaller, finer bubbles, less carb bite.

My serving/lagering fridge is set at 35F.

Lagers, I leave at serving pressure (10 psi) for 4 weeks while cold conditioning, and they're just right.

Ales, I try to leave at serving pressure for 3 or 4 days. Then I pump them up to 30 psi for 12 hours, then disconnect and wait until the pressure in the keg is reduced either from absorption or by serving a few pints. Then I reconnect CO2 at serving serving pressure. They are usually fully carbed in a few more days.

To each his own. Whatever works best for you is what you should do!

 

[Jay-Brew]

Thanks for the feedback folks. I am certainly open to trying different methods and will consider trying to "slow" carb a keg. I guess patience is the only thing that might get in my way of doing that. I have kegged quite a few batches and never felt any of them were overcarbed. The notion of carb bite by okiedog is interesting though because the beer I am drinking now I have wondered about a bit of what feels like some extra carbonation on the middle of my tongue (for lack of a better description). The fact that I have a cold and my sense of taste is almost nil might also weigh in, but I will get a better sense once that passes....

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I guess I'm not looking for tips on how to speed things up, just wondering why it is taking so long. Last night I was drinking a pale ale that has been carbing for over 5 weeks. There is some carbonation, but it isn't 100% done yet.

An ipa that had been kegged for a couple months has great carbonation though.

 

[stpug]

My process is as follows with no disadvantages I can think of:
-Rack beer to keg
-Put keg in kegerator on gas at 20psi
-Leave for about 48 hours, but 72 is okay also
---no rocking, no shaking, just elevated psi
-After 2-3 days, relieve headspace pressure and reduce to serving pressure (i.e. 10psi)
-At this point my beer is 85+% carbed, and it finishes up over the next couple days.
-Never have overcarbed this way.

Basically you're drinking it on day 2 or 3, and it's perfect on day 5ish.

 

[Jay-Brew]

I guess I'm not looking for tips on how to speed things up, just wondering why it is taking so long. Last night I was drinking a pale ale that has been carbing for over 5 weeks. There is some carbonation, but it isn't 100% done yet.

An ipa that had been kegged for a couple months has great carbonation though.

I wonder if there is a CO2 leak in your system somewhere?

 

[day_trippr]

I wonder if there is a CO2 leak in your system somewhere?

I'm thinking the gas post/QD interface isn't opening more than a crack...

Cheers!

 

[JustLooking]

Pressure gauge could be off?

 

[Hopper5000]

How cold is the kegerator? If there isn't a lot of head space in the keg that will make it not carb as quickly also.

 

[JustLooking]

How cold is the kegerator? If there isn't a lot of head space in the keg that will make it not carb as quickly also.

Surface area, pressure and temperature are what control how fast your keg will carbonate. Not the volume in the keg.


edit:
On second thought, that's not entirely true. What I meant was it's not dependent on head space. More beer will take longer to carb.

 

[Hopper5000]

That's interesting JustLook, I have found that if my kegs aren't filled up to the brim then they carb a little faster. Maybe that is a false assumption. It makes me wonder about bottles and different fill levels in the neck causing different carbonation effects. I know a bottle isn't a keg though...

 

[JuanMoore]

There are a lot of factors that affect carb time, including surface area, pressure, beer temp, beer volume, FG, ABV, and certain ingredients in the recipe. I had a coconut porter that took 5 weeks to carb, and my guess is that it took so long because there was still a tiny amount of oil in the coconut that didn't get denatured during roasting, and it was creating a thin film on top of the beer preventing the CO2 from being absorbed as easily. Any chance you're using something in your beer recipes or cleaning regimen that could be causing a similar issue?

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Thanks for the responses, there's some good points in there.

The regulator is something I've thought about, as I've had problems with it before. The dispensing pressure is spot on though, so I'm not sure. I've also looked pretty thoroughly for leaks (water/soap/glycol mixture) but haven't seen any evidence.

The oil is an interesting thought. I actually avoid most cleaning products in favor of elbow grease, but I will soak the posts in PBW or oxyclean. Aside from running warm pbw or oxyclean through the brewery a couple times a year, I don't use any cleaning chemicals there either. I try to be thorough when rinsing, but its very possible I am leaving some residue behind.

Once finally carbonated, the head retention is great though. I figured head retention would be hurt by oils.

 

[Bobby_M]

There's certainly nothing wrong with head-start set and forget where you crank the pressure to 30 psi for 23-36 hours and then bring it down. It just requires more discipline to not forget to drop the pressure at the right time. 3 days on 30psi and you're overcarbed.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I'm a little worried about screwing up the other kegs on the same line. I guess I could just disconnect the keg at 30 psi while it sits. I don't trust the check valves I have.

 

[Hopper5000]

When I have kegs at different PSI's I use a secondary in-line regulator. Although that does mean you'll have to spend some money getting one of those. Disconnecting isn't a bad idea though.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Hmmm... Strange. I do the set and forget (~11 psi @ 40 F) and usually my beers are carbed nicely in a week, week and a half.

I have found that if you want to rush it a little you can cool it down put it on serving pressure and agitate the keg(rolling, shaking, etc). Since you aren't upping the pressure any over serving the possibility of overcarbing is nonexistant. I have also done the gas in the beer out line which does seem to help carb faster and will have the added bonus of blowing any sedimentaway from the diptube(it may mix some back into solution though.

The more the differential between volumes of CO2 that are already dissolved in solution verses in the headspace makes for quicker dissolving. That last bit of carbing will always take the longest with the set and forget method.

 

[kcbeersnob]

Is there some kind of advantage to slow carbing? I carb mine at approximately 30 psi for two days and think it is just fine this way. Have never felt it was overcarbed as a result, or under for that matter.

In addition to the points made by others above, the reality is that homebrew is usually better after it has matured for a while and cleared. So unless you are giving the beer time to mature (e.g., secondary) for a few weeks prior to carbing, the beer benefits from the extra time that the set it and forget it method provides.

This is one of the reasons I got a larger keezer than I need for dispensing. I can carb up a keg or two while I wait for tapped kegs to kick.

 

[Homercidal]

In addition to the points made by others above, the reality is that homebrew is usually better after it has matured for a while and cleared. So unless you are giving the beer time to mature (e.g., secondary) for a few weeks prior to carbing, the beer benefits from the extra time that the set it and forget it method provides.

This is one of the reasons I got a larger keezer than I need for dispensing. I can carb up a keg or two while I wait for tapped kegs to kick.

That's a good point, and part of the reason I prefer to let it sit for 2-3 weeks rather than mess with it.

On the other hand, if you have a beer that's been in secondary for a couple of weeks, then it's probably not going to change a whole lot, aside from carbonation) once it's kegged.

I agree with Bobby, cranking it up for a day or so is not a problem. The problem is not taking the pressure down in time. If you overcarb, you have serving issues and the fix is generally to shake the carb out and purge and then re-carb. It's just kind of a PITA and of course you have probably have a bit of sediment that gets stirred up again.

 

[Nhendric]

I'm looking to let my beer sit about 3 weeks. I have a big triple and big Scottish. Suggestions for pressure and
temp?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I'm looking to let my beer sit about 3 weeks. I have a big triple and big Scottish. Suggestions for pressure and
temp?

CarbCalc is a handy little online app that will answer your questions.