Single infusion mash with under modified malt

[h0psnobery]

I frequently brew a french saison with mostly pilsner malt and ferment it with Wyeast 3711 and secondary with Brett B. I was considering using Weyermann floor malted pilsner, which is slightly under modified. Do I really need to do a multi step mash since I'll be using Brett in secondary? If I did do a multi step mash, what would be the simplest way to go about it?

 

[porterpounder]

Even with slightly undermodified malt, you're likely going to be fine with a single infusion mash. You can do a protein rest (mashing in with a low water to grist ratio) and then adding boiling water to bring it up to sacc temp. There are a lot of online calculators to help you out with water amounts. Either way 3711 is going to tear through your wort with abandon and Brett will do some damage on the back end. I wouldn't over think it.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Wouldn't an extended mash help with conversion?

 

[dmtaylor]

Just mash at 148-150 F for 90 minutes and call it good. This will work just fine.

 

[h0psnobery]

I've always heard that Brett can digest longer chain sugars that would be unfermentable to a typical sacch yeast. For this beer, I mash at 156F to make sure that the Brett still has plenty to eat after the 3711 is done. I was hoping that using under modified malt would give me even more sugars that only the Brett could digest, is that not the case? I know this will make a great beer regardless of how I go about it, I was just hoping to better understand the science behind it. Thanks to everyone that already replied.

 

[dmtaylor]

Hmm..... first of all, 3711 eats more sugars than pretty much every other commercially available beer yeast. It can take ANY beer down to a final gravity 1.000 without any trouble at all. So, you might want to consider using a different base yeast than the 3711 if you are concerned about leaving something for the Brett to munch on. Or, pitch both in simultaneously at the beginning of the fermentation so that they both have a chance to act.

I think people overthink the Brett thing, trying to "feed" it and whatnot. If you want your beer to have a Brett flavor, throw it in there and wait a few months. Even if added to a 3711 fermented beer at the end of 3711's fermentation, I would bet it goes Bretty on you anyway, without any additional thought or effort required on the part of the brewer to feed the Brett.

No worries. Play around and see what happens. Keep it simple.

 

[rabeb25]

You guys must have never looked at a malt sheet and just go off assumptions. However, I will provide you with a malt sheet of Floor malted bopils. Maybe that will stop the "assumptions".

http://www.weyermann.de/pdf_analyses/q019-001960-01.pdf

 

[dmtaylor]

You guys must have never looked at a malt sheet and just go off assumptions. However, I will provide you with a malt sheet of Floor malted bopils. Maybe that will stop the "assumptions".

http://www.weyermann.de/pdf_analyses/q019-001960-01.pdf

Everyone, please excuse my friend Bryan. What Bryan is trying to say here is this:

1) He knows a lot about German malts and German brewing process;

2) The rest of us don't;

3) The Kolbach index for Weyermann floor malted pilsner malt is 41.2%, which is well in excess of the Kolbach index for undermodified malt of 33% or less; so, in conclusion, the Weyermann floor malted pilsner malt is well modified, and not undermodified as was previously assumed. As such;

4) Don't need a protein rest or step mash; single infusion is appropriate with this malt.

Bryan, thanks for the insightful link.

 

[VladOfTrub]

Standard modification, standard protein. Refer to Weyermann's site and look at their recipes. E-mail them with questions, they are nice to deal with. Expensive malt to dump hot water on and wait for an hour for magic to occur. At 90 minutes real magic has to be occurring. Conversion takes place when Beta converts native sugar, glucose, which is released when Alpha liquefies amylose at a 1-4 link into maltose and maltriose during the maltose rest. The non-reducing end is glucose and yeast love it. The reducing end is where non-fermentable sugar comes from. Alpha softens and liquefies starch. Starch is the container that holds the sugar, which is inherent, and when Alpha liquefies starch, the sugar is left. Saccharification takes place within 20 minutes. The time is indicated on the malt data sheet which the brewer was kind enough to provided. At 156F, Beta is wiped out quickly and conversion is curtailed. Fermentation will be the result of glucose. Rapid and thorough fermentation of glucose is the reason why secondary fermentation vessels are not generally needed when wort is drawn from single infusion. I think that Saison was the name of a bar that was bombed out during WWI, reopened and closed in 1922. It recently became a style of beer due to a marketer in the craft brew world. I am not sure if anything written about it other than it was the name of a bar is really true. Kind of like Barn Yard beer or whatever the stuff is called. If the stuff tastes good and doesn't make one puke, that is all that matters.
Finally, more brewers that know the value of a malt data sheet. Many home brewers are not aware that it exists. Not too much science involved with single infusion, a data sheet isn't needed. However, to a brewmaster it is a necessity. There would be of no need for the testing agencies, IOB and EBC to test malt and to produce a data sheet if it was of no value.