Should I split my US-05 yeast starter?

[syvmn]

About 10 minutes after pitching a pack of US-05 into my starter wort, I found out I shouldn't have made a starter with it. I just recently got into making them and never realized that dry yeast shouldn't have a starter.

I'm wondering if I should split my starter in half and use one portion for my beer (5gal of 1.061) and save the other portion for future use. I was planning on washing and saving the yeast from this batch anyway.

Thoughts?

 

[johnnytaco]

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but saving/washing a yeast that costs $5 a pop seems to be a waste of time and money. But most people I know buy the stuff and directly pitch it into their wort without re-hydrating it. I know, it says you don't have to on the package, but if you look at their website, it says for best results to do it. If you pitch the whole starter, you should have wicked fast fermentation. It is best not to save/wash yeast from a beer that had an OG over 1.050, according to the pros.

 

[LovesIPA]

But most people I know buy the stuff and directly pitch it into their wort without re-hydrating it. I know, it says you don't have to on the package, but if you look at their website, it says for best results to do it.

No no no! Don't do this. According to Yeast (Jamil and Chris White's book), pitching dry yeast onto wort can kill half the yeast. Rehydration is critical to dry yeast.

If you pitch the whole starter, you should have wicked fast fermentation. It is best not to save/wash yeast from a beer that had an OG over 1.050, according to the pros.

This is true as well.

OP, I made the same mistake as you once. I made a starter from a packet of US-05 and then I learned you're not supposed to do that. We all make mistakes and learn from them - it's part of learning how to brew.

 

[Elijah]

I'm not the expert but isn't there a notion of "the more yeast pitch the faster you get to optimal yeast density per volume, hence making the chance for fossil oils even less" = better beer?!

According to that, you can pitch the whole starter in the wort so you would get them yeast starting on alcohol production rather wasting time on multiplying and generating heat and bad flavors!

 

[LovesIPA]

I'm not the expert but isn't there a notion of "the more yeast pitch the faster you get to optimal yeast density per volume, hence making the chance for fossil oils even less" = better beer?!

Fossil oils? You mean fusel alcohols?

And no, that's not necessarily true.

According to that, you can pitch the whole starter in the wort so you would get them yeast starting on alcohol production rather wasting time on multiplying and generating heat and bad flavors!

No, it doesn't work that way either.

Yeast are *supposed* to reproduce. It's critical for beer production. You're supposed to pitch a certain amount of yeast, they're supposed to go through a reproduction stage prior to fermentation. This is why fermentation doesn't start for up to 72 hours.

Generating heat is just part of fermentation. You can't stop it.

Off-flavors usually come from fermenting too warm.

 

[firerat]

No no no! Don't do this. According to Yeast (Jamil and Chris White's book), pitching dry yeast onto wort can kill half the yeast. Rehydration is critical to dry yeast.

Meh. Your gonna get a lot arguments with this one. Me included. I just don't see the point. I've only rehydrated my yeast once and saw no real benefit. YMMV.

There are enough cells in a US-05 pack that just pitching with rehydration in most cases will be just fine.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with rehydration at all. I'm sure it adds some sort of benefit. Folks who know a lot more about brewing than I do tend to think so.

OP, I made the same mistake as you once. I made a starter from a packet of US-05 and then I learned you're not supposed to do that. We all make mistakes and learn from them - it's part of learning how to brew.

It's not that your not supposed to do it. It's more that it's kind of pointless to do it. It certainly isn't going to hurt anything.

EDIT: Well actually I guess you could have a gross overpitch that can be bad, so I retract that statement.

 

[Elijah]

Fossil oils? You mean fusel alcohols?

:smack: Sorry

I guess the tension in the Middle East and 18h of news are finally getting to me!

 

[AnOldUR]

It's not that your not supposed to do it. It's more that it's kind of pointless to do it. It certainly isn't going to hurt anything.

From Mr Malty:

In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast.

 

[firerat]

From Mr Malty:

Well again I stand corrected on that one.

 

[LovesIPA]

Meh. Your gonna get a lot arguments with this one. Me included. I just don't see the point. I've only rehydrated my yeast once and saw no real benefit. YMMV.

Do you have the equipment necessary to actually look for any differences or benefits in yeast viability or cell density?

That being said, there is nothing wrong with rehydration at all. I'm sure it adds some sort of benefit. Folks who know a lot more about brewing than I do tend to think so.

You don't know what the benefits of rehydrating are, but you're going to tell us it isn't necessary?

OK.....

It's not that your not supposed to do it. It's more that it's kind of pointless to do it. It certainly isn't going to hurt anything.

No, you're not supposed to do it. One gram of dry yeast contains about 20 billion yeast cells. 11 grams (one packet) is 220 billion cells, enough to ferment 5 gallons of most wort without a starter.

But dry yeast is not just yeast. There are nutrients and reserves for the yeast to utilize when you rehydrate them or pitch them dry (which you're not supposed to do). If you make a starter with them instead, they consume those resources in the starter instead of in the wort.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic or start a flame war.

 

[syvmn]

Soooo, to ask the question a different way, should I dump half and pitch the correct (220bil) amount or just pitch the whole starter?

 

[LovesIPA]

Tell us how big the starter is, how much DME you used, whether you used a stirplate or how often you shook it and how long it's been fermenting.

 

[RedBeardedBrewer]

To OP. I think you should pitch the whole starter and let us know what happens. I'm not trying to make your precious beer into a guinea pig but I would imagine this possible mistake is not a big deal. I think there are some "laws" to brewing and I don't believe you have broken any here.

I agree that if you are over pitching you may get some "fossil fuels" aka fusel alcohols, and that dry yeast are manufactured so they dont need a starter. But let's see what happens!

Splitting the starter seems like a lot of trouble and you will have no solid idea what your pitching rate is once you do this. You may introduce beer spoiling bacteria during this time or when you store the other half. Let us know what you decide to do!

 

[firerat]

Do you have the equipment necessary to actually look for any differences or benefits in yeast viability or cell density?

You don't know what the benefits of rehydrating are, but you're going to tell us it isn't necessary?

I'm giving what is referred to as an "opinion". This "opinion" is based off of personal experience as opposed to things I read on the internet.

Why so hostile? Have a drink and calm down.

No, you're not supposed to do it. One gram of dry yeast contains about 20 billion yeast cells. 11 grams (one packet) is 220 billion cells, enough to ferment 5 gallons of most wort without a starter.

Go back and read the last line followed by my last post.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic or start a flame war.

Then try not to come across so hostile and relax a bit.

I'm sharing personal experience. Anyone can regurgitate something they read in a book.

I'm not a scientist. I haven't conducted scientific experiments. Just personal ones.

I brewed an ale. I rehydrated the yeast. Beer was made. Beer I was happy with.

I made the same recipe and tried my hardest to maintain the same parameters. This time I didn't rehydrate yeast. Still managed to make beer I was happy with.

I did this a few times and drew MY OWN conclusion that rehydrating yeast wasn't worth my time.

What is YOUR experience?

Again YMMV. (Your Mileage May Vary)

 

[syvmn]

Ooook. This has gotten more intense than I ment, but I think I'll just pitch the whole starter and see what happens. I don't have a stir plate so that might help. I'll probably be over pitching but oh well. I'll pay back how it turns out

 

[firerat]

Ooook. This has gotten more intense than I ment, but I think I'll just pitch the whole starter and see what happens. I don't have a stir plate so that might help. I'll probably be over pitching but oh well. I'll pay back how it turns out

Sorry about that bud.

Yeah go for it and see what happens. that's what this is all about right!!

 

[Locksmith]

It will not hurt anything having made a starter.

Saving the extra yeast is useful and will last a while in the fridge.

Why waste more money per batch of beer if it is not needed? Save the yeast cake, wash it and multiply it after each brew.

Safale 05 is so clean, as long as your ferment and pitch temps are right you will see no detriment to your brew for at least 6 generations of reuse.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

It is best not to save/wash yeast from a beer that had an OG over 1.050, according to the pros.

The O.G. that limits repitching is strain and brewery design dependent. Sierra Nevada repitches Chico and SNPA has an O.G. of 13P (1.052). I repitched my Ringwood culture for over a year without going back and propagating a new culture from slant. My house base O.G. for that year was 14P (many batches exceeded 14P). However, I plated both of the strains in my Ringwood culture from a hydrometer sample taken at a Peter Austin designed/Alan Pugsley installed brewery.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

Save the yeast cake, wash it and multiply it after each brew.

I know that yeast washing is popular on this forum, but it is completely unnecessary in practice. Plus, it is an infection vector if not performed correctly. All one really needs to do to leave enough liquid in one's primary carboy to be able to swirl the solids back into solution. The particulate matter and dead yeast cells will settle quickly, leaving the desirable yeast in suspension. The lip of the carboy should be wiped with a cotton ball soaked in alcohol before carefully decanting the liquid into a sanitized container (I usually cropped to 500ml Erlenmeyer flasks).

 

[Elijah]

I think I'll just pitch the whole starter and see what happens.

Keep us posted!

 

[syvmn]

Pitched it this morning. 36hr old 1L starter into 5 gallons of 1.062 wort @ 60F. I'll give it a look when I get back from the State Fair.

 

[syvmn]

The beer seems to be fermenting along nicely (after about a 18hr lag) at 60-62F. The only odd thing so far is the krausen. Its the most perfectly fluffy white I have ever seen. Usually it looks like vomit. Any thoughts as to why? I'm not worried in the slightest, just curious.

 

[RedBeardedBrewer]

Syvmn, any updates on the beer? Is it finished? To answer your question, it's probably just the recipe if I had to guess but who knows

 

[realeight]

I just did the same thing this past Friday...made a one pint or so starter using US-05 and DME. approx. 18 hr. lag time. I've never seen such an active fermentation. I had to remove the airlock and use a blowoff. It's Wed. night and finally starting to slow down. I really hope I'm not brewing rocket fuel. DARN!