Jako
Well-Known Member
Well I racked into bottling bucket added priming sugar and just noticed I dont have bottle caps how I did this I have no idea.... Will I be okay to let it sit over night till I can run to the LHBS
Shoot big mistake
- Thread starter Jako
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Dcpcooks
Well-Known Member
If you have co2 you may want to purge the bucket to prevent oxidation but I suspect you don't.
If not seal it up as best you can and bottle asap tomorrow. If you see some bubbles in the morning you may need to add a bit more sugar, but you should be ok.
You are fine. Put a lid on the bottling bucket. The yeast in the bucket will eat the priming sugar over next day or so and protect your beer from oxygen in the process. Probably need to give it about 2-3 days then add new priming sugar and bottle.
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Jako
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the quick help everyone, sadly no c02. I could put it outside going to be in the 50s.
Should I wait 2-3 days then start over or will tomorrow be okay if I ad a splash of sugar?
Thanks again I am still kicking myself over this. I had planned Washing the yeast tonight and making a cider all in one night.
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Jako
Well-Known Member
Had some bubbles today. I really thought about it I would rather drink flat beer then have bottles explode.
if you wait a few (maybe only a couple) days the yeast will eat all the sugar and you can start over with a clean slate and just add the correct amount of priming sugar for bottling. If you add sugar too soon, how will you know what portion of the sugar is gone so you add the right amount?
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Jako
Well-Known Member
well shucks.... its all bottled up now. well i know for next time if i make the same mistake.. i hope not anyways thanks for all the help!
i hope someone learns from my mistake or reads this and is able to use the help provided to me. thanks again!
i hope someone learns from my mistake or reads this and is able to use the help provided to me. thanks again!
65C
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it was no drama - the sugar takes a week to ferment out and carbonate
I think people take the air exposure and sanitation etc. too seriously - brewing yeast are hardy buggers - you need to try real hard to overpower that
a bit of oxygen etc. might knock the beer back 5% on taste but how do you think brewers coped 200 years ago before StarSan
just bottle it up and it'll likely be a good drinker in 2 weeks
I think people take the air exposure and sanitation etc. too seriously - brewing yeast are hardy buggers - you need to try real hard to overpower that
a bit of oxygen etc. might knock the beer back 5% on taste but how do you think brewers coped 200 years ago before StarSan
just bottle it up and it'll likely be a good drinker in 2 weeks
slym2none
"Lazy extract brewer."
Can you put it in a fridge? Or at least somewhere cool?
In the future kegs are way easier
How so? You have to buy a lot of expensive equipment, keep supplying CO2, clean the lines, clean the kegs, etc.
I just put some sugar in a bottle, add the beer, and cap. Bottles are free, caps & capper are cheap.
Bottle on, my brothers! Don't fall for this ploy. Only get into kegging if you want to, not because others push you to it with misleading charges.
if you are using a bottling bucket you are way past the point of trying to save yourself from oxidation.
if your yeast was recently active it'll probably take down all the priming sugar in less than a day. the only reason it takes so long in a bottle is because you normally don't take all the yeast cells with you.
if your yeast was recently active it'll probably take down all the priming sugar in less than a day. the only reason it takes so long in a bottle is because you normally don't take all the yeast cells with you.
oceanic_brew
Well-Known Member
We all oxidize at some point, even your mother.
Consider this for a moment.
Consider this for a moment.
Consider for a moment that air is about 200,000 ppm oxygen.
Also realize that high quality commercial breweries typically target around 0.2 ppm oxygen in the bottle. They do this because above this amount there is a noticeable impact on flavor.
Also consider that the diffusion rate of oxygen from the atmosphere is on the order of several ppm/hr.
Then also realize you racked a beer from a semi-permeable plastic bucket with porous o-rings after fermentation had been finished for days to weeks, into another bucket filled with air, where you exposed it for at least 15 minutes while it racked....
So yah, if you used a bottling bucket you already lost the oxidation game. Doesn't mean the beer will be terrible, but don't think for a second your beer won't be oxidized.
Also realize that high quality commercial breweries typically target around 0.2 ppm oxygen in the bottle. They do this because above this amount there is a noticeable impact on flavor.
Also consider that the diffusion rate of oxygen from the atmosphere is on the order of several ppm/hr.
Then also realize you racked a beer from a semi-permeable plastic bucket with porous o-rings after fermentation had been finished for days to weeks, into another bucket filled with air, where you exposed it for at least 15 minutes while it racked....
So yah, if you used a bottling bucket you already lost the oxidation game. Doesn't mean the beer will be terrible, but don't think for a second your beer won't be oxidized.
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Jako
Well-Known Member
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Jako
Well-Known Member
I'm concerned if you added double priming sugar and did not wait for first priming sugar to ferment out you may has seriously over carbed. If you didn't add more priming sugar at bottling you may have under carbed because while you were getting caps the yeast were working...That is issue too...But if you did add priming sugar both when you made the original mistake and again when you capped and didn't wait long enough for first dose of priming sugar to ferment out you could have explosive situation...If that is possibly the case please keep the bottles somewhere that an explosion won't hurt anybody for a couple weeks until you get a chance to check carbonation level.
In a nutshell...
1. Crush grain immediately before using.
2. Purge mash tun with inert gas from bottom.
3. Pre-boil mash water. Rapidly chill to strike temp add small dose of sulfites.
4. Underlet mash. Stir once.
5. Mash cap.
6. Recirculate mash with return line beneath surface of liquid.
7. All fittings pressure tested with gas to ensure no venturi effect.
8. Boil gently.
9. Immediately chill, pitch yeast and then oxygenate.
10. Ferment in corny kegs under slight pressure (no oxygen ingress).
11. Water purge serving kegs with flush shortened dip tubes. This is key to getting all the air out of corny keg - there's a lot more than you think!!!
12. Rack to serving keg with a few gravity points left
13. Close loop transfer.
14. Spund keg (natural carbonation + active scavenging)
Steps 10-14 I've documented fully in the link in my signature.
Sounds like a lot of work, and to some extent it is, but it really does make a huge difference when it's all done right. Iit's a weak link process so it's very difficult to cherry pick just certain parts.
Long version: http://www.********************/brewing-methods/low-oxygen-review/
This is just a silly load of crap to hit a new brewer with. It may make a difference. But it is far far away from the RDWHAHB method of making beer that we already know works extremely well. Let him get started there and if he wants to venture into that particular vein of craziness it won't be hard to find.
Your opinion. I just answered his question as directly as possible.
Gotta start somewhere, and simple is good, but all these RDWHAHB people trying to ignore reality aren't doing anyone any favors. I wish someone had told me when i was a new brewer how important avoiding oxidation was. Oxidation doesn't make undrinkable beer, but there is an amazing difference when you get the low oxygen part right.
Fair enough. I do many of the things you do and also think I make pretty good beer. I've been reading the threads and the site with interest and may give more of them a try. I'm also interested in the open fermenter techniques that are apparently the secret to making great British style ales. Have you tried combining the techniques? Maybe flood a room with CO2 with an open fermenter in the middle?
slym2none
"Lazy extract brewer."
MaryB
Well-Known Member
And for the average home brewer totally unnecessary. We are not a commercial brewery making product that might sit on a shelf for 6 months.
And I bet the difference in taste is negligible.
I ferment in my bottling buckets(yeast cake never reaches height of the spigot), I wash my kegs flush the sanitizer out with CO2 and leave pressurized until needed. At which point i bleed off the pressure, remove the lid and use a piece of vinyl tubing to fill keg from the fermenting bucket. ZERO oxidized flavor in my beer.
And a test was done on this http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/19/po...normal-vs-high-oxidation-exbeeriment-results/ nobody could pick the beer as being oxidized after 4 weeks in the keg. Most of my beers do not last 4 weeks in the keg, they are gone in 2-3 with friends filling growlers...
And I bet the difference in taste is negligible.
I ferment in my bottling buckets(yeast cake never reaches height of the spigot), I wash my kegs flush the sanitizer out with CO2 and leave pressurized until needed. At which point i bleed off the pressure, remove the lid and use a piece of vinyl tubing to fill keg from the fermenting bucket. ZERO oxidized flavor in my beer.
And a test was done on this http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/19/po...normal-vs-high-oxidation-exbeeriment-results/ nobody could pick the beer as being oxidized after 4 weeks in the keg. Most of my beers do not last 4 weeks in the keg, they are gone in 2-3 with friends filling growlers...
I must really like oxidized beer because I don't try very hard to eliminate oxygen and my darker beers are far above any commercial beer I have tasted after a year in the bottle, with the exception of those where hop flavor/aroma are important. Those are best drunk within the first 3 to 4 months although they are pretty darned good after a year too if there are any left by then.
I would gladly wager with you. It's not even close to negligible. That's why pro brewers do it, and above average home brewers have figured it out too.
I would agree though that the *average* home brewer is probably going to have a hard time with it. But that doesn't mean an average home brewer has to be average forever.
Brulosphy should never be quoted as evidence of anything. It's the home brewing equivalent to Mythbusters. Entertainment value only. The writers themselves say as much.
Both of the beers in their experiment were oxidized so no surprise no difference was detected. It's an extremely small amount of oxygen that puts you over the threshold. Once you exceed the threshold it doesn't matter how far you exceed it to a point.
There's a good thread going on right now about Brulosphy that discusses the merits and shortcomings.
It's actually quite possible you have learned to enjoy oxidized beer. Nothing wrong with that.
I think you're all missing my point here though. If you think your oxidized beers are good, you'd be blown away how good they are when they aren't oxidized. It's a step level improvement in the beer quality on the same level as fermentation temperature control.
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Jako
Well-Known Member
i only added sugar once. once i read your original post i thought about waiting the 3 days but decided to bottle the next morning as soon as possible so i wouldn't have to bottle during the work week.
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Jako
Well-Known Member
You have this idea thought that you can't make great beer unless you do to do which is false. Loads of excellent beer is made without Lodo and loads of crap beer is made with Lodo. So sorry but you shouldn't post on a thread about how only good brewers use Lodo methods and how you're method is superior when the original question was about a priming sugar mistake
My experience is that oxidation really dulls out a beer. And as I've said a bunch of times, it doesn't outright ruin beer, but unquestionably it is not for the flavor benefit. I'm sorry that you don't think oxidation matters, but the truth is that it does and its a difficult problem to solve.
And i was replying to point out someone who had mentioned oxidation, and another that was looking for more info.
Don't be a dick.
I think the problem begins with this post being on the beginners forum but lodo is not a beginners method, many other things a newbie needs to work on to start making good beer before they start to worry that they ruined their beer before the mash was even finished
I agree that low oxygen techniques are a bit more advanced and I wouldn't suggest a new brewer attempt them in the beginning when there are far more important details to work out. There is a learning curve to brewing and one of the things on the list along with water chemistry, fermentation temp control, etc, should be oxidation control. But obviously if you don't have fermentation temps under control then there's no point to trying to reduce oxidation anyways.
But a lot of people around here are suggesting, incorrectly, that oxidation isn't real and shouldn't be worried about at all, and i think that message is a huge disservice to the home brewing community.
And again i wasn't telling the OP that the solution to his problem had anything to do with low oxygen. I was commenting in response to someone else that at this point the OP need not worry about oxidation because it's already happened. And when OP asked how to reduce, i gave him a short overview and a link for further reading. Oxidation doesn't inherently ruin beer. It just dulls and changes the flavors. It doesn't make it undrinkable or unsafe to drink.
But a lot of people around here are suggesting, incorrectly, that oxidation isn't real and shouldn't be worried about at all, and i think that message is a huge disservice to the home brewing community.
And again i wasn't telling the OP that the solution to his problem had anything to do with low oxygen. I was commenting in response to someone else that at this point the OP need not worry about oxidation because it's already happened. And when OP asked how to reduce, i gave him a short overview and a link for further reading. Oxidation doesn't inherently ruin beer. It just dulls and changes the flavors. It doesn't make it undrinkable or unsafe to drink.
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Jako
Well-Known Member
like making sure you have caps ready before you rack and add priming sugar?
I never said oxygen was a issue and that's my point.
This thread was about making a priming sugar mistake, not about lodo techniques. I agree that post boil oxygen is detrimental to a beer but to the extreme of what you described in an earlier post I disagree (although I understand many people make excellent beer with it).
Bingo lol, all part of the learning experience which makes brewing fun and rewarding
And i wasnt putting an argument for or against lodo because I havent attempted it nor have I drank a lodo brewed beer, all brewers will go through the progressions extract, all grain, kegging, water chemistry, etc for me lodo is more on the end game level
To each their own brew on! [emoji482]
Nuke83
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Best post in the thread.
MaryB
Well-Known Member
Load of crap, at the home brewer level I bet there have been THOUSANDS of winning beers made the exact same way I make mine. And yes I have tasted oxidized beer. It tastes like crap. Incidental 5 minute exposure to O2 is not going to ruin a beer! While in the fermenter it has CO2 being produced, enough to keep a layer above the beer. So the 5 minutes it takes me to kill a keg that was recently full of CO2 then is put back under CO2 has negligible O2 exposure.
And Bruphilosphy points out the fact that even so called home brew experts cannot taste the difference! Your claim both beers were oxidized is a load of bull because you never tasted either!
And none of my beer tends to last more than 3 months, either I drink it or friends drink it or family drinks it(my little brother just swiped a keg, grrr now I have to brew this weekend. I can't complain to hard, it is my nieces wedding out in CA and he is flying with the keg!)
And Bruphilosphy points out the fact that even so called home brew experts cannot taste the difference! Your claim both beers were oxidized is a load of bull because you never tasted either!
And none of my beer tends to last more than 3 months, either I drink it or friends drink it or family drinks it(my little brother just swiped a keg, grrr now I have to brew this weekend. I can't complain to hard, it is my nieces wedding out in CA and he is flying with the keg!)
yeehaw
Member
Would be interesting to hear OP's experience going forward -- did you get bottle bombs or was the beer under/overcarbed?
I'm also a bit worried about oxidizing my beer. Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but I'd like some input... I have pin-lock kegs, so purging is done with the gas-in post instead of the purge valve on the lid found on ball-lock kegs. However, the gas-in tube protrudes into the keg an inch or more, and there's a couple of inches headspace left in the keg. Obviously I won't be able to get all the oxygen out from this space when I purge? Is this something to worry about? (i.e. should I start looking into swapping all of the lids on my kegs into lids equipped with a purge valve?)
I'm also a bit worried about oxidizing my beer. Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but I'd like some input... I have pin-lock kegs, so purging is done with the gas-in post instead of the purge valve on the lid found on ball-lock kegs. However, the gas-in tube protrudes into the keg an inch or more, and there's a couple of inches headspace left in the keg. Obviously I won't be able to get all the oxygen out from this space when I purge? Is this something to worry about? (i.e. should I start looking into swapping all of the lids on my kegs into lids equipped with a purge valve?)
NSMikeD
Well-Known Member
since this is a beginners thread, it's a good example of using check lists and laying out everything before you begin. On brew days, I use BrewSmith and print out the Brew Steps in the Session tab. I also try to keep my gear organized in bins - small bins in a large bin. It helps me visualize if I am running low on something.
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