serve and ferment from keg?

[Gnomebrewer]

Are you taking samples at a somewhat regular schedule or using a tilt or something like that? I will usually take a one or two looking for fg but unless I get lucky in my timing I’m either too early or too late.

I typically take samples every few days. In a 10 gallon batch, I ferment in three corny kegs with 4 gallons in each. It allows for a little bit of wastage and only costs a dollar or two more. I still get two full serving kegs of beer after taking gravity samples (which I always drink) and having several glasses straight from the ferment keg after cold crashing (or lagering). Lagers don't seem to be too much different from non-pressure ferments (but I do give them BIG yeast pitches) but ales seem to take about a week, whereas they normally finish in about four days for me when not under pressure. I mostly don't do ales under pressure from the start now though, just pressurise towards the end.

 

[adman]

got my inspiration here-------- http://think.gusius.com/diy-keg-floating-dip-tube/--------the hole in float is too large so I rigged it differently. still works. Those are wine filters, come 10 to a pk. The tubing is silicone and is very flexible. Too flexible when you're trying to slip it onto the gas tube. You'll see what I mean. All told, the order from aliexpress took about a month to come in. You can probably beat that using amazon.

I built several of the DIY floats with parts from the gusius link above. They seem to work well, although I have only just started using them, so I haven't yet run into any of the possible difficulties (foaming, clogging with hops, etc). Including the extra 3/8" ID tubing that I needed to buy in order to make the float fit on the filter, it cost me about $60 for enough supplies to build 4. This is not much less than it costs to just buy the Williams Brewing equivalent, which is perhaps what I would do today.

 

[McKnuckle]

View attachment 615265

@ghohn I just bought one of these. It comes with two blue plastic retaining clips, and I see you do not have those installed. What is the purpose of the clips? There are no instructions with the valve. I just copied your pictured setup and I'm trying it out now on a fermenting keg. It was bubbling into StarSan through an open blow-off hose before, but now with the valve on it's silent. Perhaps not enough pressure built up yet? Just don't want to screw something up... thanks.

 

[ghohn]

@ghohn I just bought one of these. It comes with two blue plastic retaining clips, and I see you do not have those installed. What is the purpose of the clips? There are no instructions with the valve. I just copied your pictured setup and I'm trying it out now on a fermenting keg. It was bubbling into StarSan through an open blow-off hose before, but now with the valve on it's silent. Perhaps not enough pressure built up yet? Just don't want to screw something up... thanks.

Those type of clips are also on water filter cartridges. To be honest, I'm not sure what the purpose of them are. As far as the valve goes, 10 psi is a fairly decent amount of pressure. It sounds like your current ferment is producing less than that. If you are looking for assurance, I'd charge up another keg with 15 psi and connect your unit to it. You'll hear it whistle for sure.

 

[McKnuckle]

My current ferment is a lager on day 7, just bumped up to 60º early this morning. I guess it just took a little bit to build up the necessary pressure, because I awoke to reassuring little blurps in the blow-off jar. They are currently a little faster than 1 per second, so I'll probably just leave the valve in place til there is almost nothing. Thanks again for showing us this little gadget!

 

[whovous]

Simple is as simple does. This is the best 5 dollars I've ever spent on brewing. It's already set at 10 psi so there's no tinkering or guess work with a coarsely threaded spunding valve. 10psi will get you about half of your carbonation. Otherwise, with this in-line regulator submerged in water, pull the valve off entirely when you trickle down to a bubble every 3 seconds and you'll end up with nearly full carbonated beer.

In line check valve

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I just put one of these on a keg of cider I have fermenting naturally, and naturally I've begun to worry.

Why won't 10PSI eventually disconnect the blow-off hose from the check valve? The fitting is smooth, not barbed, so even though I tried adding a hose clamp to the mix, I am not convinced it will make any difference. Isn't 10psi eventually enough pressure to make a difference?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

10PSI isn't much. If you can't pull the fitting off the hose by hand, it should handle 10PSI without falling off, but make sure you check for leaks.

 

[whovous]

Something went very wrong with this. I am naturally fermenting a 3 gallon keg of cider at 50F. I connected the inline check valve to a blow-off tube and dropped into a half-full half-gallon Mason jar of StarSan. It eventually started to bubble a bit, presumably once the pressure topped 10PSI. I left town early Thursday AM and returned at about 2AM this morning to find my half-full jar was completely full and I had a bit of cider on the bottom of my fermentation chamber as well.

For the short term, I removed the tube and relieved the pressure in the keg and went to bed. Where do I go from here? Do I assume the fermentation reached a peak and caused an overflow that won't recur? In that case, I should simply restore the check valve. What else should I consider?

 

[McKnuckle]

I think you probably just had a liquid blowoff due to inadequate headspace. The check valve won’t help with that.

I have used this gadget 3x now and it certainly seems to work. I am partially carbing beer in the fermenting keg, then just drawing from the top to serve. It’s really cool.

I also found an in-line pressure gauge from William’s that lets you monitor pressure as well. Here is a new lager at ~16 hrs post-pitch registering 5.5 psi. The check valve is in the jar up top, and it is bubbling.

 

[whovous]

Yeah, this one had very little headspace. I've never tried a natural ferment before, and I was guessing it wouldn't be all that active. Well, now I am guessing the major activity has passed. I guess we will find out if I was right or now.

Question about your picture. If our check valve passes all pressure above 10PSI, then why doesn't your gauge read 10PSI as well? Seems to me that either the gauge is wrong, or the check valve is passing all pressure above about 5.5PSI.

Also, am I correct to assume it does not matter if I use the out poppet rather than the in like in your picture?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I can't answer for what McKnuckle has, but my spunding valve is adjustable (most are). I set it to 15PSI for lagers.

If you use the out poppet for a pressure ferment/spunding, then you'll lose liquid (i.e. beer or cider) when the pressure builds up rather than gas. It's basically dispensing itself under it's own pressure. So no, you cannot connect your valve to the liquid out.

 

[McKnuckle]

@whovous that fairly obvious question occurred to me after I replied! I think the gauge must be wonky in this application. Something about the way it measures pressure - which is itself being relieved further down the line - renders it inaccurate. It is meant for monitoring a keg that’s on tap, and completely closed up. This setup is vented via the blowoff.

It may still be interesting to see how it shapes up as the ferment slows down. But if not, it will only be like the 99th useless brewing gadget I’ve bought. It will have company in the castaway drawer!

 

[whovous]

@whovous that fairly obvious question occurred to me after I replied! I think the gauge must be wonky in this application. Something about the way it measures pressure - which is itself being relieved further down the line - renders it inaccurate. It is meant for monitoring a keg that’s on tap, and completely closed up. This setup is vented via the blowoff.

It may still be interesting to see how it shapes up as the ferment slows down. But if not, it will only be like the 99th useless brewing gadget I’ve bought. It will have company in the castaway drawer!

I wish I had a drawer big enough for all of my castaway gadgets. I persist in believing that if I can just collect the right gadgets, my beers will magically all become medal winners!

It strikes that it is also possible that your gauge is correct and your check valve is wrong. Given that gauges are least accurate near their extremes, I'd guess that it is more likely that the valve is correct.

 

[whovous]

I can't answer for what McKnuckle has, but my spunding valve is adjustable (most are). I set it to 15PSI for lagers.

If you use the out poppet for a pressure ferment/spunding, then you'll lose liquid (i.e. beer or cider) when the pressure builds up rather than gas. It's basically dispensing itself under it's own pressure. So no, you cannot connect your valve to the liquid out.

The valve that McKnuckle and I both have is not adjustable; it is designed to relieve pressure about 10psi and to do it far more cheaply than the much more expensive spunding valve that, in my case at least, is still sitting in an unopened box in a place of honor among my unused brewing gadgets.

Well, I've been connecting my valve to the liquid out, and I was getting gas out for a while...

I guess it is time for me to make the switch... Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Well, I've been connecting my valve to the liquid out, and I was getting gas out for a while...

I guess it is time for me to make the switch... Thanks for the heads up.

When you fill the keg with liquid, the liquid tube is still full of air (unless you fill through the liquid out post). That means you'll get gas (air) coming out initially, but not for long.

 

[twd000]

can someone with the wine filter measure some dimensions for me?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/design-idea-for-floating-dip-tube.665920/

 

[JAReeves]

Thank you for all of your insights so far, this is a step I am thinking of taking instead of investing in a SS conical. My questions, and maybe this is answered above, are:

Is there an open poppet or something that can replace the liquid out poppet so that I can collect the blowoff yeasties?

After the ferment slows down (3-5 days for ales?), then I would put on the spunding valve and allow the beer to naturally carb? If it is under pressure, I believe it was said that fermentation slows down, so where should the pressure valve be set so fermentation completes, or am I just going to need to keep checking FG?

Is it necessary to transfer the beer off of the primary yeast cake into a secondary keg, or maybe only if dry-hopping, or not at all?

Any and all assistance is welcomed and appreciated!

 

[Carolina_Matt]

If you're worried about blow-off, you can avoid installing the gas dip tube and post. Just clamp a silicone tube directly to the keg where you would normally screw on the gas post. After a few days when you're no longer in danger of blow-off, you can put in the dip tube and post and hook up the spunding valve.

For a standard beer (1.050-1.060 or so), I usually get some bubbling about 24 hours after pitching a packet of Safale US05. 48 hours later I'll hook up the spunding valve, and set it to ~23 psi. It's more accurate to take a gravity reading, but that timeline has worked for me on the few batches I've done. I may try a 72 hour window next time, but don't want to miss the boat.

I've never transferred the beer off of the primary yeast. I just serve directly out of the fermenting keg, and I don't notice any off-flavors. If it'll take several months to finish a keg, you may need to move it to a separate keg, but my kegs don't last long enough for that.