Semi-Automatic HERMS System (Work in Progress)

[bkloos]

OK guys, down to business.

I need some advice.

I plan to have my temps monitored in 5 locations:

1. BK
2. HLT
3. MT
4. HX input
5. HX output.

I am going to purchase 5 RTD sensors from Auber as seen here.

I have two ebay PID controllers which I plan to use for controlling the BK and the HLT burner valves as seen here.

I was thinking about purchasing three of these for the MT and HX inpt-output.

I would like to know what you guys think about the above gear... Would it be worth my while buying something better for the 3 temp meters given I don't plan on using them to switch any pumps valves? I'm not sure how accurate they will end up being? I really only need something to display the temps. I will ultimately adjust mash temp by controlling the HLT temp.

Another question is how long should the probes be for my monitoring? I was thinking 2" for the HX connections, which will mount onto 1/2" Ts on the kettles. Would 4" be best for the HLT and BK? What about the MT, as I want to get a good read of mash temp but don't want the probe to be a hindrance when I stir the mash....

All advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Bryan

 

[bkloos]

Update with Pics :rockin:

Progress is slow, but I'm moving forward.

I've finished up the water suply/filter system, I have my QDs attached, fit the RTDs, added a couple dial thermos for sport, and tiged up the mounting base for the NEMA enclosure to hold the electronics (which should be delivered in a day or two).

Next up will be stripping everything down for final paint, color TBD??? Then bolthing everything back together, running wires, finishing up the sight-glasses, and building up the electronics and then test runs. Very exciting!!!

Here are some pics of the recent work.

 

[bkloos]

A few more photos...

 

[bkloos]

Oh, and the smoker previously mentioned. BBQ!!!

 

[bkloos]

You guys may notice the my water supply lines are under the burner and ofset about 4 inches. I'm thinking things may get a little hot down there... How much radiant heat should I expect below the burners?

I can att a couple 90 deg elbows to point further waya ans limit the height of the QDs. I guess it will all depend on the heat.

I am also planning on adding some 10" duct pieces as wind shields...

Thoughts?

Bryan

 

[hondab16]

Any more updates on your build??

 

[bkloos]

Hey Guys,

Between the wedding in June, and Spring cleaning, I haven't done a whole lot lately. The frame is now stripped down and awaiting its final coat of paint. I've drilled all the holes for wire runs, and I just started working on the control panel. This will be the main focus for the immediate future.

I will post a few pics of the electrics when I get the camera out.

I think in another two weeks I will have the control panel finished, stand painted, and will attempt the first heat/liquid tests.

Oh, and the smoker passed it's first test this past weekend :rockin:

Bryan

 

[TheFlyingBeer]

A few more photos...

I swear I am living in an alternative universe... I am currently planning to buy a Tig welder, make a automated HERMS setup and this is my lil Chocolate Lab:

How old is yours? The brewing rig and BBQ look awesome!

 

[beerthirty]

Although mentioning it in my thread, I'm glad that someone has done the BBQ. My funds failed me and I have not been able to implement it yet. Congrats! Once you go automated you can attend to the BBQ while the brew takes care of itself. I would skip the boxing in of you valves though. you will find that the BK recirc valve might need more maintenance then was expected(hot break clogging the orifice). Good luck, I'm looking forward to more pics.

 

[GreenMonti]

Very nice Blkoos.

I remember you from the welding thread and a PM or two. For some reason though I missed your thread. Looks like I missed out on a lot. Very nice work. Your welds look really good. Pretty soon you will have work on the side.


I'll hang out and see how it turns out if you don't mind.

 

[bkloos]

Thanks for all the kind words guys.

Stella is just 11 months now. The pic above is probably a couple months old. She is a wonder. Great Great Dog! Ours look quite similar in build and color. How old is yours?

Regarding purchasing a tig and building a system, I say GO FOR IT! I've learned a LOT of info from here and the help/assistance is top notch! It takes time, but every good journey does.

Beerthirty, the BBQ is a blast. I'm still learning her characteristics, but so far so good! My next adventure will be a brisket. I'm just burning mixed hardwoods now, but would like to find a local source for some fruit woods. I do imagine there will be many days this summer/fall with brew and Q. Automation would in fact free up some time to stoke the smoker and mop my meat!

GreenMonti, thanks for the props on the welds. They came out nicely, are sturdier than they need to be, and the whole stand came along well. Thanks for the assistance in prior threads.

I will post pics later today when I get out of the lab, but the main focus now is the control panel. I wired up the PIDs and the main power distribution side last night. Basically it is a simple relay switching hot and neutral to some power blocks, with an E-stop button on the side and some thermal fuses. Today I will try to add some more switches to the front panel, and a rotary knob such that I can control which temp probe controls the HLT/HX vessel burner (MT, HX-in, HX-out, HLT). This will give me the option of switching probe locations to find what location gives the best control over mash temps. Anyway....

Pics to come soon.

Bryan

 

[I-Hop]

Great work Bryan. Definitely top notch. Would love to see some updated pics, can't wait to see your progress. Sounds like you've been a busy guy. Between your HERMS build, young puppy to train, upcoming wedding...whew!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Just came across this thread, everything looks amazing! Your manifold is a frakin BEAST

Looking forward to updates!

 

[bkloos]

11 solenoids, 2 pumps, and the electric ball valve...
Yup, she's a beast.
We'll see soon enough how she flows

 

[bkloos]

Back in the Saddle...

Wedding, Check.
Honeymoon, Check.
Back to work, check.

Here is the stand, fully painted with kettles on top. Still need to tig up the sightglass gaurds and add the float switch, but otherwise the kettles are essentially done.

Here are the manifolds and the water supply as well...

 

[bkloos]

Here is the control panel. I still need to add a couple switches, run all the wires through the frame and probably try to get the graphics/text screened on the enclosure... All in good time. I've used sharpie in the meantime which is fairly easy to remove with a little pressure and soap.

There are enough mechanical relays in there to keep me busy with wiring... I figure I have about 4 more hours or work on the control and then I should be able to start mounting things to the frame...

 

[bkloos]

To my utter amazement, last night with the first wet test, EVERYTHING WORKED!!!

I have a couple slow drips from the manifold and some fittings on the kettles, but otherwise all the processes worked to their designed intention.

This was just a wet test, with no heat. I will button up the drips, fabricate some covers for the pumps and then fire up the gas.

I was absolutely shocked when she fired right up, no priming problems, and the fluids started flowing between kettles with simple flips of a switch.

The wife drove up as I was tinkering and said she could see the grin on mty face from down the street.

Cant wait to get some grain in there and start brewing.

Pics to come soon.

Thanks.

Bryan

 

[King of Cascade]

So...can you fax the recipe from the office and have a fermenting beer when you get home?

 

[Bithead]

Must be an app for that somewhere.

 

[bkloos]

iPhone control... Hmmmm, that a good idea.

Unfortunately, the system is not that automated. I still need to flip a switch to change from dough-in to recirc to sparge to boil to sterilize to chill to pump out.

It still has a long way to go, but things are heading in the right direction.

One big concern was pumping against a closed valve in the manifolds. From what I can tell, the valves are not letting any fluids pass by when closed. All the fluids are following the path of least resistance through the open route in the manifold. This was a big concern. So far so good!

 

[GreenMonti]

To my utter amazement, last night with the first wet test, EVERYTHING WORKED!!!

I have a couple slow drips from the manifold and some fittings on the kettles, but otherwise all the processes worked to their designed intention.

This was just a wet test, with no heat. I will button up the drips, fabricate some covers for the pumps and then fire up the gas.

I was absolutely shocked when she fired right up, no priming problems, and the fluids started flowing between kettles with simple flips of a switch.

The wife drove up as I was tinkering and said she could see the grin on mty face from down the street.

Cant wait to get some grain in there and start brewing.

Pics to come soon.

Thanks.

Bryan

Congrats man. I'm looking forward to those pics, and more pics of the vessels full of grain and wort.

 

[bkloos]

F#$'ing 21 tip jet burners....

Hey Guys,

I've got the burners up and running, but am not too happy with the flame.
I have a fair amount or orange flame that is hard if not impossible to remove with the pressure adjustment on the honeywell furnace valve.

That said, I'm looking for a low pressure alternative that may perform a bit better?

Does anyone care to suggest such an alternative, the price, and source?

Thanks Guys (oh, and pics coming soon).

Bryan

 

[Catt22]

I favor this one:

http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400000/

It can be used with either high or low pressure if you get the proper orifice for it. It's basically the same burner that is used on the Bayou Classic SQ-14. You are not at all alone having issues with those multi-jet burners. They are designed to operate at wide open throttle and there is no way to adjust the air/fuel ratio, hence the yellow flame. My brewing buddy has three of those burners and while they do look impressive, I was not at all thrilled with their performance.

 

[Maltose]

bkloos, any updates? also, which honeywell valves did you use?

 

[bkloos]

Maltose,

Things are coming along, just slowly with the other responsibilities of life.
I'm working on the adjustable float switch mount this week, and hope to get that finished. A few more odds and ends and I should be brewing.

I used gthe honeywell intermittent pilot retrofit kit, as seen here
for the gas under the hlt. I have an ASCO with standard pilot for the BK. I may switch it over to an automated ignition down the road.

I'll get up some pics this week, I promise!

 

[bkloos]

Ahhh..... Finally a weekend to work.

I've promised the boss a keg of homebrew for the holiday party (told her the same thing last year) and as such I'm trying to tie up the loose ends.

I've got a short list of tasks which I hope to finish up this weekend before trying out the firs official brew session.

A bit of welding, some ground wiring, a few adjustments to the electronic burner ignition, PID calibration and tweaking and I should be all set.

I'll post up some pick after the weekends work to that the rig can be seen.

I am SO ready for some homebrew!!!!!!

 

[skiingimpy]

Love the rig, the bbq, and the dog. We have a 2.5 year old brown lab named...stella. Your build(s) are inspiring me to get on top of my own major brewery upgrade. Thanks

 

[bkloos]

So close, yet so far away...

Guys. I'm having trouble with the pilot ignition on my honeywell. When the burner has been on and is red hot, the pilot lights with spark, but when cold the pilot does not want to ignite... Any suggestions as to how to adjust the settings to get proper ignition of the pilot?


Thanks,

Bryan

 

[kladue]

A couple things to check, pilot burner orifice size right for gas used, .018 for NG, .010 for propane, .018 on propane will give troubles with too rich a mixture, .010 on NG and flame will be too small. Next is the flame size when pilot is lit, if to large a flame then ignition spark will probably be iffy at best when trying to light pilot, adjust the pilot gas flow on the honeywell gas valve to get 3/4" - 1" flame, 3/8" - 1/2" of flame rod should be glowing when running.

 

[bkloos]

Thanks Klaude,

I adjusted the gas flow and tweaked the height of the ignitor and she is working as expected.

If my garden hose is not frozen solid, I will try to do a complete mock run with water today. Fingers crossed.

BK

 

[ChandlerBang]

*subscribed

 

[bkloos]

Good News...

I found some time to clean out the garage, move some stuff around, and reclaim my working space now that the majority of winter is behind us and the wife can keep her car outside.

I've finished labeling the control panel with cheapo labels from a Brady label maker used for scientific sample labeling. These things should not wear off.

I've installed the permanent copper IC mounted in the BK for cooling, which is supplied through the water distribution manifold.

I've tweaked the burners and ignition, and they are responding well to control.

The float switch is mounted and working to control the rate of sparge.

All that's left to do is work on a hop-stopper of sorts for the BK and add a little fine mesh at the MT outlet to avoid any grain getting into the plumbing if it sneaks past the false bottom. I also need to mark gradations on the sight glasses and mount a nice little fire extinguisher on the bottom of the frame under the control panel.

I'll hope to finish up this work over the week and fire up a wet run test batch this weekend, making sure all controls and flows are working as intended. If that passes, I'll brew a batch the following weekend.

I can't say how happy I am that spring is in the air, and I'm back at finishing this journey!

Pics to be posted tomorrow afternoon.

BK

 

[RonRock]

A couple things to check, pilot burner orifice size right for gas used, .018 for NG, .010 for propane, .018 on propane will give troubles with too rich a mixture, .010 on NG and flame will be too small. Next is the flame size when pilot is lit, if to large a flame then ignition spark will probably be iffy at best when trying to light pilot, adjust the pilot gas flow on the honeywell gas valve to get 3/4" - 1" flame, 3/8" - 1/2" of flame rod should be glowing when running.

I have also had some issues with the Honeywell Igniters. I've done a lot of adjusting and things seem better. It takes a while to get them to light up on first try. As expected it takes a bit to get the tubes filled with LPG. But in my efforts to resolve the hard to light issues I found at least 3 different Igniter / Pilot Light sets. These three Honeywell part numbers all have the same description, look identicall in description. So my question is, any idea what the difference is between the three? Maybe one would be better suited for our application than the others?


Part #'s


Q345A1305---http://www.hvacpartsoutlet.com/Honeywell-Pilot-Burners-Q345A1305.aspx




Q345A1321---http://www.hvacpartsoutlet.com/Honeywell-Pilot-Burners-Q345A1321.aspx



Q345A1313---http://www.hvacpartsoutlet.com/Honeywell-Pilot-Burners-Q345A1313.aspx

 

[RonRock]

Well I answered this myself. I was finally able to find the Honeywell web site. And it actually had a "compare" feature. It shows that the three models are Right, Left and Front Tip. So won't help me. The burners light well off the pilot, it's the pilots that I'm having trouble with. Maybe helpful for someone else though. Here is the compare link,

http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/CatalogNavigator.aspx?Definition=Comparison&Catalog=Homes&ChannelID={2EB2F178-20ED-44E0-97FB-CCFB4218DD64}&Type=Product&ReturnUrl=http%3a%2f%2fcustomer.honeywell.com%2fHoneywell%2fUI%2fPages%2fCatalog%2fModelCategory.aspx%3fCatalog%3dHomes%26Category%3dQ345_12311%26ChannelID%3d{2EB2F178-20ED-44E0-97FB-CCFB4218DD64}&cookie_test=true

 

[DeliriumTrigger]

This is utterly amazing work and it makes me want to learn to weld so I can construct something similar. Someday, maybe.

 

[Orfy]

I likey. Well done.

 

[bkloos]

Thanks Guys,

Here are some photos of the brewery as it stands now.... Getting there...


Slideshow

 

[kladue]

I have the same issues with the pilot burners not lighting on the first try after some down time. It usually takes 2 manual mode tries to purge pilot gas line and light the pilot burner, after that it lights almost instantly.

 

[408Brewer]

Thanks Guys,

Here are some photos of the brewery as it stands now.... Getting there...


Slideshow

Ok, we are brewing beer not launching objects into space... j/k That has to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen in my life. You should send some pics off to a few magazines, someone WILL write an article about that thing. :rockin: Are you brewing beer with other means, or are you waiting for this scientific marvel to be completed? I can't wait to see this thing in action.

 

[dutch101st]

Bryan-

Where did you get the water filter? I am in the market for a replacement to what I have right now...