Secondary or Not??

[jrsdws]

My first all grain brew (California Common) has been in primary for two weeks. Fairly vigorous air lock activity was present for around 8 days using 34/70 yeast and fermenting at 55F in my basement. I will not be lagering but keeping it at this temp in the basement.

The NB recipe says to move it to secondary after 1 to 2 weeks then go another 2 to 4 in secondary.

Is there anything about this beer that would benefit it by moving to secondary or can it just stay in the primary? If so, how long should it go? Is 4 to 6 weeks in primary okay?

 

[jeremy0209]

Unless I'm adding something to the beer (dry hops, fruit, oak, etc.), I never secondary. You should be fine for up to six weeks in the primary.

 

[jrsdws]

Will the beer become more "crisp" tasting if racked to secondary and kept around 50ish degrees for a few weeks before bottling?

 

[kombat]

No. Just leave it in primary the whole time. After 3 weeks, put it in a fridge if you can, and lager it for another 2-3 weeks. That will help clarify the beer and allow it to mellow out. Otherwise, just leave it in primary for 3 weeks, then bottle.

 

[Grannyknot]

The only time I use a secondary is if I want to harvest the yeast before I add dry hops.

There are hundreds of threads on HBT about using a secondary.
Some people use them, some don't. There are arguments on both sides of the use of them.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

The only time I use a secondary is if I want to harvest the yeast before I add dry hops.



There are hundreds of threads on HBT about using a secondary.

Some people use them, some don't. There are arguments on both sides of the use of them.

Agreed, im one of them that use a secondary everytime no matter what. I usually do a 2 week minimum in the primary as this is ample time for yeast to finish and clean up. I also like the idea of ageing the beer off the yeast. Might not be required but its not much effort to prevent any chance of off flavors. Some have reported off flavors with the beer on the yeast over 3 weeks, some say they had it on the yeast for 6 weeks and had no problems. Experimenting is the only way to find out what you want to do.

 

[Homercidal]

I've had good luck not using a primary, but then I don't usually lager a beer. If I were to lager a beer I'd most definitely use a secondary. Will it make a difference? I don't know. But if you use good practices when racking, it can't hurt it. The yeast sitting on the bottom of the primary are not the yeast that are going to help take care of the beer after the primary. They are just dead or inactive yeast.

The good thing is that you are keeping the beer pretty cool, so I wouldn't say there is much danger of leaving the beer on the trub either. It's really your call.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

The yeast sitting on the bottom of the primary are not the yeast that are going to help take care of the beer after the primary. They are just dead or inactive yeast.

Thats the key right there. No need to keep your delicious beer on dead/inactive yeast. It definitely wont help, but it could hurt, so why risk it? This is why i secondary. You get the satisfaction of knowing 100% that dead yeast wont give you off flavors, because there simply not there. The same cant be said if you dont secondary.

 

[kombat]

This is why i secondary. You get the satisfaction of knowing 100% that dead yeast wont give you off flavors, because there simply not there. The same cant be said if you dont secondary.

What about the yeast that are still in suspension when you rack to secondary, then some time over the next several weeks/months they fall out of solution to the bottom, and subsequently die?

When you go to bottle after an extended secondary, is there not a yeast cake present on the bottom of the fermenter? Why is that yeast cake not a risk, but the one in the primary fermenter was?

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

What about the yeast that are still in suspension when you rack to secondary, then some time over the next several weeks/months they fall out of solution to the bottom, and subsequently die?



When you go to bottle after an extended secondary, is there not a yeast cake present on the bottom of the fermenter? Why is that yeast cake not a risk, but the one in the primary fermenter was?

The yeast cake in the secondary has no where near the amount of dead yeast, particulate matter and boiled material that a primary has. During the time in the secondary, the higher majority of that sludge on the bottom is dead yeast, not poop, plus there is way less so risk is naturally less. Just my two cents. I prefer secondary.

Also im an ale guy, i dont do lagers, time in secondary never exceeds two weeks.

 

[mdennytoo]

I used a secondary two or three times back when I was bottling. But, I usually leave my beer in the primary for 2 to 4 weeks and then keg. The thing is, the pickup tube in the keg always gives me yeast in every pour. Even though I crash for a couple of days, I am getting a lot of yeast when I rack to the keg. I am thinking about using a secondary for weeks 2-4 again just to get a clean rack into the keg next time. Anyone have any advice on how to rack best to a secondary or a keg?

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

You could always shorten the tube a small amount. Sure you might lose a glass or two but it might be worth having no yeast in your glass.

 

[petrolSpice]

In my experience, my beer is much clearer when using a secondary. I've left the beer in the primary for up to 4 weeks and it never quite cleared up as much as I would like. Then I racked it to a secondary and it was much clearer in just a day or two. Despite not sucking up any trub from the primary, there was a good layer of trub that fell to the bottom of the secondary. I also do it to free up my primary for another batch. It is not necessary though as mentioned.

Secondary is also good for adding fruit or dry hopping.

 

[ajf]

I've had good luck not using a primary...

Wow, I've never considered not using a primary. How do you do it?


-a.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

Lol that would be an experiment.

 

[Croyzen]

The yeast cake in the secondary has no where near the amount of dead yeast, particulate matter and boiled material that a primary has. During the time in the secondary, the higher majority of that sludge on the bottom is dead yeast, not poop, plus there is way less so risk is naturally less. Just my two cents. I prefer secondary.

Also im an ale guy, i dont do lagers, time in secondary never exceeds two weeks.

There's more risk of things like infection from your racking cane and oxidation (although I'd say that's low if handled correctly) than from letting your beer sit on the primary yeast cake. If you're an ale guy, what kind of ales are you making that require such a long time in any fermenter? The vast majority of ales are done and can be racked off in two weeks and that includes some aging. What's infinitely more important than transferring the beer off the primary yeast cake is getting your fermentation temperatures correct and pitching the right amount of healthy yeast. You also dry hop right in the primary with no ill effects. Most folks are leaving their beer in some sort of fermenter for 1-4 weeks for various reasons. Of course there are exceptions and very long term aging/conditioning may require transfer, but the run of the mill ale that's been dry hopped has no need to move out of primary. I ferment only in glass carboys though. I have heard that people who have left beer in buckets for long periods after fermentation have got infections. I have no experience with this though.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

I do 2 weeks primary for all ales i make. I dont bother taking FG reading during that time because 2 weeks is more then enough time for FG to be hit for any ale. This way i dont have to worry about infection from multiple openings for testings, its less work and its a standard i can plan for. The extra time doesnt matter as im in no rush to drink it. I have had a few points drop in the last couple days of the second week indicating there was still work to be done. If i hit my projected FG then great, if i hit lower even better. I transfer to a secondary for cold crashing(all brews) and dry hopping(as required). This is just what i do and what works for me.

 

[eastoak]

I have heard that people who have left beer in buckets for long periods after fermentation have got infections. I have no experience with this though.

look at the infections thread and you will see infections in glass carboys, plastic buckets and stainless conicals. the type of fermentor used has nothing to do with a beer getting infected or not.

 

[jrsdws]

After 3 weeks in the basement at 55F average temp, I decided to "lager" in the garage which is kept at 45F. I'll get about a week before it warms up enough here that the garage temp rises significantly. I'm leaving it in primary for this. I'm not sure if I'll bring it in and bottle (4 weeks primary) or just keep it where ever it's coldest, garage or basement for another week or so. I expect the basement will be seeing low 60's temps in another week.

After the lower garage temps, should I just plan on bottling this weekend and allowing some extra fridge time in the bottle as necessary?

 

[eastoak]

bottle whenever it's reached a stable final gravity. after the bottles are carbonated you can keep them refrigerated if you have the space.

 

[MKBoitnott]

bottle whenever it's reached a stable final gravity. after the bottles are carbonated you can keep them refrigerated if you have the space.

I agree with sentiment here. I bottle condition as well, and I always find that the beer still does it aging/mellowing in the bottle. As weve discussed before the "secondary " process is not a yeast-related process.

I can attest directly to the california common for the OP. I just completed a Cal Common. 14 days in primary, 5 days cold-crash, 2 weeks bottle conditioning. I did not secondary at all, and my beer tastes just fine. In fact its probably the best beer I have done.

For the low gravity, hop-forward beers, I really think you are wasting your time moving to secondary. With an added risk of infection, oxidation, or not letting the yeast finish theres really no reason to secondary these beers. Grain to glass in month (if bottle conditioning.).

 

[jrsdws]

Excellent thanks. I'll bring it in and bottle this weekend and look forward to enjoying it soon.

 

[BigFloyd]

I can attest directly to the california common for the OP. I just completed a Cal Common. 14 days in primary, 5 days cold-crash, 2 weeks bottle conditioning. I did not secondary at all, and my beer tastes just fine. In fact its probably the best beer I have done.

For the low gravity, hop-forward beers, I really think you are wasting your time moving to secondary. With an added risk of infection, oxidation, or not letting the yeast finish theres really no reason to secondary these beers. Grain to glass in month (if bottle conditioning.).

+1.

If you can cold crash the primary 5-7 days in the mid-30's, you'll have some very nice clear beer with a lot less yeast trub in the bottles if you bottle condition.

I never use a secondary. Any dry hopping takes place in the primary (after fermentation is done, or course). Lagering happens in the corny kegs. Beers that need really long-term aging get bottled, boxed and stored away for months so that I don't tie up a keg for that long. I don't do fruit beers.

 

[Puddlethumper]

+1
Cheers and enjoy!

 

[jrsdws]

+1.

If you can cold crash the primary 5-7 days in the mid-30's, you'll have some very nice clear beer with a lot less yeast trub in the bottles if you bottle condition.

I never use a secondary. Any dry hopping takes place in the primary (after fermentation is done, or course). Lagering happens in the corny kegs. Beers that need really long-term aging get bottled, boxed and stored away for months so that I don't tie up a keg for that long. I don't do fruit beers.

Unfortunately my beer fridge is full of homebrew so I can't crash in it.....wait...fortunately my beer fridge is full of homebrew so I can't crash in it!

This is my first lager, hence without typical lagering capabilities, I chose the steam beer and 34/70 yeast combo.

I've settled on 3 weeks in primary and 3 weeks bottle conditioning for my ales thus far.