Second Sour Beer

[rupert130]

This will be my second attempt at sour beer. My first was a Berliner that turned out very well. I am stealing the one gallon sour beer idea that I have seen on this forum. My idea is to brew and ferment a Kolsch style beer and then run off one gallon into a jug, pitch sour dregs, and wait for the bugs to do their magic. Here is the recipe I intend to use:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: kolsch

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Kölsch
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.036
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 4.82%
IBU (tinseth): 22.37
SRM (morey): 3.57

FERMENTABLES:
7 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (73.7%)
2.5 lb - American - White Wheat (26.3%)

HOPS:
0.6 oz - Perle, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.2, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 19.3
0.25 oz - Tettnanger, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 2.19
0.25 oz - Tettnanger, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 0.88

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 151 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 26 qt
2) Temperature, Temp: 170 F, Time: 10 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

YEAST:
Wyeast - Kölsch II 2575
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 55 - 70 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / deg P)

With this recipe will the bugs have enough to eat? The dregs contain Lactic, Brett, and Pedio.

Please feel free to shoot my plan/recipe full of holes.

Thanks

 

[sj3324]

How much sourness are you wanting?

 

[rupert130]

How much sourness are you wanting?

Moderate sourness, tart but not overwhelming.

 

[dantheman13]

It depends on what kind of bugs you are pitching. Generically speaking we could probably say that if you are pitching after a clean fermentation and only pitching Lacto and/or Brett, it's not going to sour much at all. If you pitch Pedio, it might get a little more sour in a couple of years. However without knowing exactly what you are pitching, the amounts, and when you are pitching, it is pretty hard to determine what you will get.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Mash higher, pitch sacch lower cell/degree

 

[rupert130]

It depends on what kind of bugs you are pitching. Generically speaking we could probably say that if you are pitching after a clean fermentation and only pitching Lacto and/or Brett, it's not going to sour much at all. If you pitch Pedio, it might get a little more sour in a couple of years. However without knowing exactly what you are pitching, the amounts, and when you are pitching, it is pretty hard to determine what you will get.

I do plan to pitch after a clean sacc fermentation. Anticipated FG of 1.012. I know there will something left for the bugs to eat, but I don't know how much flavor that will lend. I have also been considering feeding the bugs, after a few months and a taste, with maltodextrin (.8 oz should be enough for 1 gallon according to reading I've done in this forum). Is that a viable option?

The bugs will come from the dregs of a Paradox Skully Barrel #4. According to them, there should be viable Brett, Lacto, and Pedio in their bottles, as well as an unspecified lager yeast used for bottle conditioning. I have contacted them and asked for more specifics on what exact strains are in their beers. I will update on that if I receive a response.

Mash higher, pitch sacch lower cell/degree

This is what I would like to do ideally, but the main batch is a clean Kölsch and I am simply running off 1 gallon, post fermentation, for souring. I plan to do the one gallon sours until I become more confident with them and then I may move on to whole batches.

Again, please shoot my ideas and plan full of holes.

 

[sj3324]

Is there any reason you don't want to run off 1 gallon before fermentation, and use the dregs to ferement it? I have done this with good results. Then if it is too sour, you could always do another 1 gallon batch, blend them, and have 2 gallons!

I have pitched supplication dregs post fermentation in a wheat beer and still had favorable results. I gave them over a year to work though.

Maltodextrin would be a good option to feed the bugs if you don't reach your desired sourness/funk.

 

[rupert130]

Is there any reason you don't want to run off 1 gallon before fermentation, and use the dregs to ferement it?

They use a lager yeast at bottle conditioning. I do not have a ferm chamber, so I am uneasy letting the lager yeast work at higher than optimal temps. I don't want to get "off" flavors from the yeast that the bugs can't clean up. Should that even be a concern?

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Like I mentioned in the paradox thread....think of how many cells you pitch, even in a very low gravity lager beer. I really don't think there is enough viable lager yeast in there to overtake the other organisms or enough to really do a whole lot flavor wise. Plus if you ferment it hot enough the bugs and brett will be at their strongest and might ferment out anything the lager yeast can use anyways

 

[sj3324]

I wouldn't worry about the lager yeast at all.

 

[Calder]

The lager yeast is probably dead. Too acidic for it. I wouldn't worry about it.

Run off 7 pints of the wort and pitch the dregs. After 5 days, add a pint of your fermenting beer. This lets the bugs started multiplying without the alcohol present (which speeds up the souring), and adding the yeast later will ferment and protect the beer.

You shoukd have plenty of food for the bugs.