Scotch Ale Advice

[eagle23]

I want to make a Scotch Ale for the holidays. Ive been reading a lot about crystal malts and I just need a little help. I'm not super confidant in reducing down the first runnings for a caramel flavor. Kind of what i'm looking for is to make the beer with a solid caramel flavor, but i do not want to the beer to be overly sweet, and I not use any black or roasted malts.

What I'm thinking so far is:

Golden Promise: 81.1% 14.29 lbs
Crystal 30L: 13.7% 2.41 lbs
Crystal 80L: 5.2% .91 lbs

OG:1.096
FG: 1.026
ABV: 9.4%
Color: 16 SRM

Mash: 60 min @ 152F


I put the recipe together with beersmith. I have heard crystal malts tend to not ferment well, so i went towards the lighter end for color to reduce the amount of non-fermentable sugars. Any advice on this recipe? Thanks

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I think it's funny how people criticize crystal, that tells me they just don't know how to brew, if you don't want the beer too sweet just add more ibu's, that's the reason we do that bittering offsets the sweetness

 

[RM-MN]

I want to make a Scotch Ale for the holidays. Ive been reading a lot about crystal malts and I just need a little help. I'm not super confidant in reducing down the first runnings for a caramel flavor. Kind of what i'm looking for is to make the beer with a solid caramel flavor, but i do not want to the beer to be overly sweet, and I not use any black or roasted malts.

I put the recipe together with beersmith. I have heard crystal malts tend to not ferment well, so i went towards the lighter end for color to reduce the amount of non-fermentable sugars. Any advice on this recipe? Thanks

Of course Crystal malts do not ferment well since they are designed to have unfermentable sugars to lend sweetness to the beer where it would be lacking if all the sugars fermented out. Balance is what you want between sweet caramel and bitter hop. The color of the Crystal malt determine what kind of flavor you would get from them. Look at a bunch of the Crystal/caramel malts and read the description of what kind of flavor they can lend to your beer.

 

[kevin58]

For historical Scottish recipes give this blog a look. The guy is a prolific writer so it's like wading through molasses sometimes trying to navigate but the information is solid. Try a search through the keyword index way down at the left side of the page. There are over 800 references to Scotland or Scottish Ales to search through. Not all are recipes but many are. Plus, Ron has written two books about Scotland and Scottish brewing... the second book has over 300 recipes in it. All taken directly from the archives and record books from the breweries.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

 

[Northern_Brewer]

@eagle23 - you don't want crystal, you want invert sugar, see eg here.

I think it's funny how people criticize crystal, that tells me they just don't know how to brew, if you don't want the beer too sweet just add more ibu's, that's the reason we do that bittering offsets the sweetness

Without going over tired old ground too much, it's mostly because USians seem to think that British brewers use way more crystal than they actually do. The sweetness in British beers mostly comes from low-attenuating yeast (which have more flavour and better flocculation characteristics for cask beer), the colour comes from caramel colouring, the caramel/toffee flavours come from brewers' sugar. Crystal only really started being used by British brewers after WWII, but even then it's generally balanced by a greater amount of sugar to dry out the beer, particularly in the north and Scotland. Even southern beers have less than USians think - something like London Pride is about as crystal-heavy as I can really stand, and it's only 7% crystal.

So feel free to use 18.9% crystal in your beers, just don't pretend it has anything much to do with British brewing. By way of example, here are some actual recipes from Ron Pattinson's site - 1851 Younger 140/- (9.92% ABV, 84 IBU, 58% attenuation), 1879 Younger No. 1 (7.67%, 136 IBU, 59% attenuation) and 1933 Lorimer & Clark SA (9.39%, 123 IBU, 74% attenuation).

Not a grain of crystal between them.

 

[snowtiger1987]

Your gravity numbers would indicate you want to brew a Wee Heavy or Strong Scotch Ale. That should not contain crystal malt. It should have a small percentage of roasted barley (contributes color and bitterness, which also helps to offset malt sweetness). You don't have to boil down some of the first runnings to syrup and add back in, that is just a short cut for doing an extended boil. As Northern Brewer points out a lot of the perceived sweetness comes from the yeast, in this case a Scottish one which will ferment low and slow and is also not highly attentuative.

 

[eagle23]

The goal isnt really to have a super sweet beer. I've reworked the recipe now rather than all the crystal, being almost 20% crystal between the 20 and the 80, its only 12% crystal60L. I"m using the crystal for the caramel flavor rather than for some technical function it apparently provides.

My next question is about the use of roasted barley, or other roasted grains in the recipe. Does it provide a flavor sought after in scotch ales, or is it solely used to add color to the beer?

 

[snowtiger1987]

See above "It should have a small percentage of roasted barley (contributes color and bitterness, which also helps to offset malt sweetness)."

 

[WestMichiganSteelheader]

I brewed my first Scoth ale on Saturday. I look forward to trying it at New Years.

12 lbs Maris otter pale
1 lb brown supreme
1/2 lb carapills
1/2 lb Munich dark
1/2 lb Vienna
1/4 lb chocolate
1 oz peated malt (overly smoked grains hurt my stomach)
4 oz of fuggle hops.

 

[bobeer]

i'd ditch the crystal malt or make it much less than 20%-- it'll be too sweet imo.

And the roasted malts will give some color but it'll also put a slight roast flavor in the beer that fits the style. If you haven't already look at several other recipes and see where yours stands. Maybe look at clone recipies too of beers you've had so you're more aware of the flavor of the grist. If I can find my christmas scotch ale I'll post it so you can look at that one too.

 

[Staylow]

A scotch ale or wee heavy should never have crystal malt. The caramel flavors you're looking for come from an extended boil. Consider replacing all your crystal with additional base malt and 2-3% roasted barley, and do a 3 hour boil. I promise you this will get you where you want to be.

 

[snowtiger1987]

I brewed my first Scoth ale on Saturday. I look forward to trying it at New Years.

12 lbs Maris otter pale
1 lb brown supreme
1/2 lb carapills
1/2 lb Munich dark
1/2 lb Vienna
1/4 lb chocolate
1 oz peated malt (overly smoked grains hurt my stomach)
4 oz of fuggle hops.

Shakes head

 

[WestMichiganSteelheader]

Shakes head

Please explain. I’m confused.

 

[snowtiger1987]

Please explain. I’m confused.

The whole thread we keep saying that a Scotch ale should only have pale malt (preferably Golden Promise) and roasted barley.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Well - there's no roast barley in any of the commercial recipes I linked to above - bit of sugar in one but that's about all. Scottish brewers are pretty keen on sugar, at least since the Free Mash Tun Act of 1880.

It can't be emphasised enough though, that peated malt has absolutely no place in Scottish beers, with a handful of atypical exceptions.

 

[snowtiger1987]

Well - there's no roast barley in any of the commercial recipes I linked to above - bit of sugar in one but that's about all. Scottish brewers are pretty keen on sugar, at least since the Free Mash Tun Act of 1880.

It can't be emphasised enough though, that peated malt has absolutely no place in Scottish beers, with a handful of atypical exceptions.

I would not consider any of those Scotch Ales. They are all WAY too hoppy.

 

[jturman35]

Northern Brewer do you consider Old Chub a scotch ale?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would not consider any of those Scotch Ales. They are all WAY too hoppy.

So you're saying you are more of an expert on Scotch ales than actual Scottish brewers?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've been a big fan of McEwan's Scotch Ale for roughly 30 years. I believe it may be referred to as #1 Champion Ale in the UK, but don't quote me on that. I see where they have a bit different ABV's.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Northern Brewer do you consider Old Chub a scotch ale?

Not one I've had - you don't see it that often over here - but reading reviews it looks like a well-meaning tribute rather than an actual Scotch ale. The smoked malt thing really marks it out as a US-Scotch ale rather than something you would get in Scotland. Plus the US hops of course. And that's OK, it's good that beer evolves, just as long as everyone means the same kind of beer when they refer to particular styles and we don't get the kind of mess that we now have with eg IPA (historical? West Coast? New England? Session?).

 

[jturman35]

Just thought I’d ask! Old Chub and the 5.2% U.S version Belhaven Scotch Ale are my two favorite. Looking back on untapped I scored McEwan’s and Old Chub 4 stars. I gave the Belhaven Version 4.75 stars. Which is actually one of my top 3 beers.