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brewprint

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11lb 2 row, .5 honey malt, .5 carapils, 3/4lb table sugar.

Same size volume of water and stirred the mash every 15 minutes. Mashed at 150 but initial was 151.5F.

The grain was crushed twice by the LHBS on their regular setting.

How can this be? Gravity at 70% was supposed to be 1.062 and I only hit 1.052. This completely blew my mind since I haven't had this bad of efficiency since my first batch.

I've done probably 20 BIABs and I get 65-70 with wheat beers. Same water and same method.

What am I missing? Ideas?
 
I have. Never had a problem unless it's above 1.065 and then I add more water to the mash and increase the boil off. The last big beer was 74% efficiency and a 1.078 SG.
 
What was your mash time? Have your other mashes been at the same temperature, or were they higher temp mashes? If this mash was lower temp than you normally do, then the mash time might not have been long enough for full starch to sugar conversion.

Did you do a full volume mash, or did you sparge? What was your strike volume, first running volume (if you sparged), pre-boil volume, and post boil volume? What was your first running SG, pre-boil SG, and OG (post-boil SG)? The volume and gravity information can be used to determine if you had poor conversion efficiency, or if you left excess sugar in the mash (poor lauter efficiency.)

Brew on :mug:
 
11lb 2 row, .5 honey malt, .5 carapils, 3/4lb table sugar.

Same size volume of water and stirred the mash every 15 minutes. Mashed at 150 but initial was 151.5F.

The grain was crushed twice by the LHBS on their regular setting.

How can this be? Gravity at 70% was supposed to be 1.062 and I only hit 1.052. This completely blew my mind since I haven't had this bad of efficiency since my first batch.

I've done probably 20 BIABs and I get 65-70 with wheat beers. Same water and same method.

What am I missing? Ideas?

How certain are you that the LHBS mill's setting was exactly the same as previous batches? Did you watch them verify the setting with a feeler guage? Any time someone finds a change in efficiency the first place I suspect is the milling of the grain.
 
No sparge full volume mash and no mash out. Strike water was 156 and went down to 151.8. My target was 150 so I just let it ride. 30 minutes later it was down to 149 so I heated it back to 150 and let it ride till the end.

I suspect I should've added more water. Possibly the mill was set up wrong.

Perhaps when I'm trying to mash so low I need to mash another 15 minutes. That's what I do with the wheat beers.
 
Unless the scale was off, it definitely points to your grist being too coarse. Milling twice on a mediocre setting is no substitute for milling once, just right.

Maybe it's time to think about buying your own mill. :)
 
Unless the scale was off, it definitely points to your grist being too coarse. Milling twice on a mediocre setting is no substitute for milling once, just right.

Maybe it's time to think about buying your own mill. :)

Yeah I probably should. What's the cheapest/best option?
 
The Barley Crusher is fairly inexpensive and I've found it more than decent so far, though there is an entire thread related to issues with it...
 
Yeah I probably should. What's the cheapest/best option?

Some LHBS let you set the mill to the gap you want, or they'll do it for you. Many others are not so willing...
I guess it depends on how much you brew whether a mill is justified.

Do a search for great HBT commentary on mills. You can get one as low as ~$100, or spend a bit more like 150-$200 for the better models.

After I started buying grain by the sack, I found myself in need of a mill too. After careful research I bought a Monster Mill MM2 (1.5" rollers). Get the 1/2" shaft if you're going to drive it with a drill (needs 1/2" chuck!).

The $50 Harbor Freight Heavy Duty Low Speed Drill (1/2" chuck) is great value, and can be had for even less with the right coupon(s). You can find "reviews" of that drill here on HBT too.

Please Note:
You can build your own hopper, it's not that difficult.
But you should really make your own plywood baseboard for any of the mills as the ones supplied (or bought) are flimsy MDF, and can cause big trouble down the road when using high torque drills.... Don't ask me how I know, first hand. ;)
 
No on the KA attachment. Not designed to crush the quantity you need. For 80 bucks not worth it....many better options IMO.

Sad day at your house when you burn out wifey's KA milling your grain :(

The cereal killer is a decent mill, 100 bucks shipped and ready to mill is reasonable.
 
$99 will get you a cereal killer mill. Not great but does the job well once I fixed the passive roller to spin better and tightened up the loose hopper.

One pass at the narrowest setting is all I need.

If buying again I would get one a bit better for more coin. Still at $99 I suppose I can't complain.
 
A good month ago I found a great 3-roller Monster Mill with motor and stand on CL. The price was very tempting too... I didn't jump on it. :smack:

Definitely steer away from the KA attachment. Just for a little more than that $80 you can get a real roller mill that crushes grain to perfection, not grind it to flour, shredding husks.

Even when I make bread dough (70-80% spent grain of course) in the KA, I stare at it, shaking my head... wondering... how long is this thing going to last?
 
$99 will get you a cereal killer mill. Not great but does the job well once I fixed the passive roller to spin better and tightened up the loose hopper.

One pass at the narrowest setting is all I need.

If buying again I would get one a bit better for more coin. Still at $99 I suppose I can't complain.

Does yours have the bearings or bushings?
 
No sparge full volume mash and no mash out. Strike water was 156 and went down to 151.8. My target was 150 so I just let it ride. 30 minutes later it was down to 149 so I heated it back to 150 and let it ride till the end.

I suspect I should've added more water. Possibly the mill was set up wrong.

Perhaps when I'm trying to mash so low I need to mash another 15 minutes. That's what I do with the wheat beers.
More water is only a good idea if you are short on your pre-boil volume. Splitting your water to allow for a sparge can improve your lauter efficiency, but it won't help much if your conversion efficiency is low (it's hard to extract sugar from the mash if it's not there to start with.) Inadequate grain crush combined with mash times that are too short are the leading causes of low conversion efficiency. Getting a finer crush is the easiest way to deal will low conversion efficiency with BIAB, as we don't have to worry about stuck sparges. Stuck sparges are what limits how fine traditional MLT users can crush their grains, and HBS's have to crush coarse to keep traditional brewers from having stuck sparges.

A longer mash probably would have helped. At lower temperatures the chemical reactions and diffusion required for saccharification happen a little slower, so more time will let them proceed more towards completion. Also, more time can compensate for a coarser crush. Larger grain particles need more time for the diffusion controlled processes to get to the center of the grain particles. The mash out suggested by another responder is really just an extended mash time with higher temps to accelerate the reactions and diffusion. If a mash out is conducted too early, the amylase enzymes will get denatured before the conversion is complete. Whereas, if you just extend your mash times at normal mash temperatures, conversion will continue without denaturing the enzymes.

There are two ways to monitor for conversion completion. One is the iodine test where you place a sample of your mash on a white surface, and add a few drops of iodine solution. If it turns dark blue or black, then starch is still present. To do this correctly you need to get grains and wort from the mash, and smash up the grains some more before the test. If you test just the wort, often the wort will be starch free, even tho the grain still contains starch, and you will think your mash is complete when it is not.

The other way is to monitor the specific gravity of the wort in the mash. It is possible to calculate the specific gravity you would have at 100% conversion based on your strike volume and your grain bill. In order for this method to work well, you need to be very accurate with your water volume and grain weight measurements. I discuss more about this here, here, and here.

Brew on :mug:
 
I saw no bearings when I took it apart. Bushings I think, but I'm not entirely sure what a bushing looks like. Definitely no bearings. A little WD-40 on the bushings?and the difference was night and day.

The new one must have bearings. I think I'm going to purchase it. Especially since I have $40 in points.
 
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