Schwarzbier help

[HawleyFarms]

Going to be brewing up a schwarzbier for a brewing demo put on by my homebrew club and wanted to get some thoughts on my grain bill first.

5# pilsner
3# Munich light
2# Vienna
8oz chocolate malt
8oz roasted barley

Not sure if it's too much roasted barley? Don't want that burnt flavor. Also don't have any husk-less dark grains either and won't make it to a store before brewing this.

 

[jekeane]

I would at a minimum cut the roasted barley and chocolate malt to 4oz each. And consider cutting the roasted barley all together. I also like 4-6oz of a crystal 40,60 even 120 or caramunich.

 

[Gavin C]

If keeping it to style is a concern I would use much less dark malts. I'd lose the roasted barley entirely.

This is what I recently used as the grain bill for my Schwarzbier. I like it but do whatever you want.

Grain Bill

 

[chickypad]

I agree with the others, without access to any debittered dark malts it might be hard. Mine is modified from Barley Water's recipe below and is 46% munich, 42% pilsner, 7% carafa III (or midnight wheat), 2.5% each C-40 and chocolate malt. I made his version once but since then have replaced the roasted barley with more carafa.

May the Schwarbier With You

 

[HawleyFarms]

Thank you guys for the help. Ended up having to cancel the brew demo due to a family emergency, but I still plan to brew up a schwarzbier as soon as things settle down. Will probably cut the roasted barley and chocolate malt down to 4oz each and order some Carafa III this week. What do you guys recommend for a lager yeast for this? Was just going to use 34/70 but will be placing an order now so can grab whatever.

 

[jekeane]

I am currently fermenting a version with Mexican Lager from White Labs. And have actually had success with 029 Kolsch fermented at 58-60. I think 34/70 will get the job done as well. The german 830 is a default yeast for style.

 

[HawleyFarms]

I am currently fermenting a version with Mexican Lager from White Labs. And have actually had success with 029 Kolsch fermented at 58-60. I think 34/70 will get the job done as well. The german 830 is a default yeast for style.

Good to know on the Kölsch yeast. I have a cake to rack off of here in about a week. May just use that.

 

[chickypad]

Yeah I usually use 830, but one time in a yeast emergency I fermented mine with Pacman and it came out surprisingly well.

 

[SpeedYellow]

I've tried Kolsch yeast as a substitute for lager yeast and it makes a very different beer. Definitely not a good substitute if a lager is the target. I really wanted to find it acceptable, but it just wasn't. I love the yeast for ales, though.

 

[z-bob]

I emailed Full Sail last year and asked about their Session Black beer. Here's what the brewmaster graciously replied:

"Session Black is brewed with Pale, Munich, 2 kinds of caramel, and two kinds of chocolate malt (both from Germany ) - no corn or adjuncts. Hops are Willamettes and Glaciers. The trick here is to be gentle with the dark malts to avoid the smoke, like in a Schwartzbier. Brew for an ABV of 5.4% and low 20’s in BU. Ferment at 55f, then mature, and cold age. We run a 28 day cycle."

Your original recipe looks like too much chocolate and roasted barley to me, but I have very little experience with such things.

I'd use 34/70 yeast, or Nottingham and ferment cool (again, not much experience)

 

[SpeedYellow]

Agreed with the above that your recipe has too much roasted malts. Use about a third or half of that, and you'll be close. 10% dark roasted malts is extremely roasty. Would be like a stout.

 

[HawleyFarms]

Thanks for the opinions guys. Ended up changing the recipe even further after working with a new supplier. Going with 59% Cargill pilsner, 35% Gambrinus dark Munich, and 6% Meussdorfer black wheat. The black wheat is not supposed add anything in the way of roasted, burnt or smoky flavors but this is my first time trying this malt so we will see.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Much better recipe!! Personally, I find that much Munich cloying, but certainly some folks are fine with it. I keep it under 20% myself. Unless you're certain you like that much Munich, you should consider backing off too.

 

[chickypad]

Interesting about the Munich, I can only take it in small amounts in pale beers and I'm not at all a fan of Marzen/Octoberfests but I have no problem with 45% in my Schwarzbier. The black wheat should be great for this (you may want to crush it separately or double crush). I do like a little roast, more for example than in a Kostritzer, if you want that you may consider keeping a little of the chocolate.

 

[HawleyFarms]

Interesting about the Munich, I can only take it in small amounts in pale beers and I'm not at all a fan of Marzen/Octoberfests but I have no problem with 45% in my Schwarzbier. The black wheat should be great for this (you may want to crush it separately or double crush). I do like a little roast, more for example than in a Kostritzer, if you want that you may consider keeping a little of the chocolate.

Thanks for the tip! I can get a pretty fine crush in my tun without a stuck sparge so I usually order all my specialty grain milled and then mill it again with my own mill. I may throw 2-4oz of the chocolate in as I will have a little left over from a different recipe but may just leave it out all together

 

[HawleyFarms]

Much better recipe!! Personally, I find that much Munich cloying, but certainly some folks are fine with it. I keep it under 20% myself. Unless you're certain you like that much Munich, you should consider backing off too.

I was actually pretty surprised to find that some schwarzbier are made without any pilsner, just Munich for a base and I do love that Munich flavor so I think I will try it this way. If I don't like it, might use a lighter Munich for the next one and see if it's any better or worse.

 

[z-bob]

I was actually pretty surprised to find that some schwarzbier are made without any pilsner, just Munich for a base and I do love that Munich flavor so I think I will try it this way. If I don't like it, might use a lighter Munich for the next one and see if it's any better or worse.

I'm thinking of making one with about equal parts pilsner and Red X, with Midnight Wheat or Carafa Special 2 for the dark malt. And maybe just a little dark crystal malt.