Sauerkraut Starter Gose

Yakima 728
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Ha.
I just had the same idea.

For whatever reason, my kraut never gets mold. Although I know it isn't uncommon and not much of an issue.
 
40watt said:
It won't take much brine to innoculate.
You know how lacto can multiply!
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, it didn't take much, at all. In fact, I inoculated a jar of 1.020 wort from the same batch of kraut on Saturday, and this morning it was still, and it smelled completely sour. I have a strong culture.

I'll get some new pictures up tonight, but one jug of this is entirely still, and clearing beautifully, with just a few bubbles hanging out on top. The other still has a sparse film on top, and the airlock bubbles about once or twice a minute. Still have no explanation for why they're acting differently, but I'm looking forward to blending them before bottling.

It'll probably be another month or two before I think about trying to bottle. I really want to give them some to finish up when the weather warms up (we're still mid 60's here), and I don't want to take any risks with a slow-acting wild culture.
 
This is better, without the flash.

2015-04-23.jpg
 
I want to get a new picture of this up tonight, but I thought I'd post a quick update on where this is, and what I plan to do with it over the next few weeks.

Our impending addition to the family (11 days and counting) has me thinking about putting my brews in order, as I have a few mid to long term projects underway and planned. As such, I can't afford to have this stuff tying up my glass jugs any longer. Those things are valuable, and I have other plans for them. So, this weekend, I'll rack the beer to a 2 gallon plastic bucket with airlock and store it in the garage during the hot spring and summer weeks ahead. With any luck, the added heat will revive the microorganisms in my beer, which are no doubt really tired by now, and get this thing finished up.

Airlock activity has basically stopped, but there's now a sparse layer of large, filmy bubbles on top. This, I assume, is some late stage of lacto development, as the bacteria struggles to survive in an increasingly hostile environment. I haven't been shy about removing the stopper for a look and a smell, and the beer smells really nice, if not a little more plain that I'd expect.

So, into the bucket it will go to make room for another experimental sour (secondary storage of a Belgian pale with saison, brett, and the same lacto culture). As pictures have been rare lately, I don't think this will impede things too much.

I'll also get a gravity reading when transferring. This will be the first since brew day, when gravity was 1.040.
 
Well, I lied a little bit. I racked this to a bucket to secondary last weekend. I needed the jugs to secondary a pale ale/saison thing, and it looks like this one is going to be in the fermenter for a while longer, anyway.

Last night I walked out to check on a lambic, and I decided to pull the airlock on this for a little peek. Well, when I saw a distinct change in color, I just couldn't help but pull the lid for a pic or two. Hope the little critters in there can forgive me.

20150515_062645[1].jpg

20150515_062631[1].jpg
 
It's been almost three months since I brewed this. I suspect that's ample time for the bugs to have done their work, and they're probably exhausted.

I need to take a gravity reading and think about bottling this. Should I take one tonight and another on Sunday, or wait a week to take a second reading before bottling?
 
It's been this long, what's another week? If gravity does happen to be moving, it's probably at a pace too hard to track over just 2 days. I'd take readings a week apart.
 
Any advice from hivemind on that SG? Is that high, or does the lactic acid production distort it that much?
 
burninator said:
Good points. I opened it today to take a reading -- 1.010 -- considerably higher than I'd expect. I'm not sure what kind of distortion the lactic acid is causing, but it had a really nice taste and aroma, with tons of fruit. Think tangerines and apricots.

I'll take another look next week and hopefully get it packaged.
Click to expand...

I want to pop one of those little, dusty bubbles...

:)
 
slym2none said:
I want to pop one of those little, dusty bubbles...

:)
Click to expand...

They're thinner than tissue paper, but the pellicle is tough. The jostling caused by removing the lid didn't break it, and even after I put a syringe through it to draw out a sample, you couldn't tell where it had been broken.

I'm really happy with this culture, and I'm currently using a later version of it to sour a berliner weisse and a saison.
 
I've haven't bottle carbed a sour yet, but I don't think you'll have much head retention. Maybe bottle at 2 volumes of co2? Really depends on what you like though
 
Pretty high FG I'd think. I'd go 2.5, leave a little room but make sure it's carbed enough when it's done. 2.0 is too low for this style, I feel.
 
youreanimpulse said:
Pretty high FG I'd think. I'd go 2.5, leave a little room but make sure it's carbed enough when it's done. 2.0 is too low for this style, I feel.
Click to expand...
That's my thought, as well, but it's been 3 months, and I don't see any signs of fermentation. I've read mention in several places that lactic acid can actually drive up final gravity, though, so maybe that's what's causing the high FG.

I exchanged a couple of emails with Josh Weaver at Westbrooke, who said to carb it in the mid to high 2's, around 2.6 or so.

Looking back at the link in the first post, it seems Ryan got a final gravity of 1.014, so I think I'm at a reasonable FG.

ryanbrews gose table.JPG
 
Another email exchange with Josh, and he believes that's about what I should expect for my FG. He brought up a good point that both the lactic acid and the salt in suspension would cause a higher reading, so this should be a much drier beer than the gravity suggests.

I'll take another pic or two of my pellicle and get these bottled tonight. I'll target 2.6 vols.

@GluStick, you're right that I won't get much head retention, but that's to style. It needs a good bit of effervescence, though, similar to a Berliner weisse.
 
I'll be bottling one gallon of sour beer that I made in a couple months. This will be my first bottled sour, going to put it on top of some salmon berries in about a week and go from there.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your gose when it's all bottled up and you try your first one. Everything is looking good so far :)
 
Bottled this beer on Thursday night. Took a few last pics of the pellicle.

This beer is incredibly clear. It should be after 3 months.

I managed 19 full bottles from this batch. They all developed their own little pellicle a day later, so there should be enough active culture in there to carb it up in short order.

This came out a lot darker than I expected. Maybe it's the extract. Again, it's crystal clear, though. I had a little sample left over.

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I gotta be straight with y'all. This smells like a nice sourdough wheat bread. However the sample was nearly undrinkable. I didn't even finish the 6oz glass. I really hope that some carbonation and the absence of the priming sugar turns out around. Otherwise this thread might stand as a memorial to what not to do.
 
I hope things turn around for you. The thread was truly interesting! What was wrong with the sample? if you don't mind me asking
 
GluStick said:
I hope things turn around for you. The thread was truly interesting! What was wrong with the sample? if you don't mind me asking
Click to expand...
I can't quite put my finger on it, actually. It feels much heavier than it should, somehow. Carbonation will help that some, I imagine. I had to use light brown sugar to prime, so I'm hoping that's what's throwing off the sample, but I'm afraid it may not have finished as dry as I would have liked.
 
Oh, the look is phenomenal. It's fizzy and clear (too clear?), with almost no had retention, just like it should be. I got a little gush when I opened it, probably owing to too little time cold conditioning.

I'll give it a few more weeks, but I'm ready to move to the next batch. I'll start another batch of sauerkraut this week (for a cookout in a few weeks). Maybe I'll time my culturing differently this time. I honestly feel that the ingredients are basically in the correct proportions, except I'll BIAB next time in hopes of getting a much lighter color.
 
I tried another bottle of this last night, and I found it underwhelming. The banana aroma is, mercifully, fading (though still overwhelming), but there's really no flavor at all. I can detect no sourness, no bright tartness from the coriander, and no flavor of any notable kind.

I can, however, distinctly detect the bittering/flavor contribution of the Saaz hops. I thought I'd kept those low enough that they wouldn't contribute much, but now I'm concerned that they inhibited what should have been a dominant lacto culture and allowed some wild yeast to flourish. This would explain the early krausen, the multi-stage fermentation, and the overpowering banana aroma in the first samples.

So, undeterred, and hopefully wiser, I'm pressing on with a new batch this evening. I started some more sauerkraut on July 18 using my favorite recipe. This should be ready to eat in time for a big cookout this weekend, and I'm hoping the mix of bugs is right for brewing.

View attachment 1438014481900.jpg

This will be a 1.8 gallon batch, like the last one. This time, though, I'm going to BIAB. I'm going to eschew any hop addition whatsoever. And finally, I'm going to ferment in a bucket, out of sight and away from the light. It'll be a cooler fermentation, but I hope the souring bugs can get a strong start and do their work over the course of the next 6 to 8 weeks.

As always, I welcome your suggestions and experience.
 
Agate said:
It's pickle season in my area, and I'm going to try something similar with pickle brine. Can't wait!
Click to expand...

Please keep me updated on how it goes!

Brewed mine tonight. I used the recipe in the OP, except I converted everything to grain, instead of extract. The salt and coriander additions were almost exactly the same (I fudged the salt upward just a little).

View attachment 1438048675098.jpg

One major difference may actually be the mix of bugs in the pitch. Last time I brewed this, I made a simple kraut with just salt and coriander. It tasted great fresh, but it quickly got really funky. I still have some, but the smell is a turn-off. This time, instead, I used my favorite kraut recipe. This one incorporates two green apples, peeled, and a tablespoon of caraway seeds, with the regular 3 heads of cabbage and the 3 tablespoons of sea salt. I wonder how the apple addition might affect the culture. I'm hoping it gives the lacto a boost, as it should have lowered the pH of the kraut, I think.
 
Last night I peeked in on this beer, as I'd seen no airlock activity, and a flashlight on the side of the bucket revealed no krausen. The first version of this beer formed a big foamy krausen within a day and a half, so I was a bit worried. Last night, there were two quarter-sized filmy spots on the surface, so I knew something, at least, was working.

This morning, you can see that the two spots have grown to cover nearly the entire surface, and they've remained separate colonies. I view this as a positive development. It's roughly the growth pattern I get from my house lacto, cultured from a previous batch of finished sauerkraut. That culture, which I recently used in a berliner weisse, gets nice and sour, so I'm hoping for similar results from this one.

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Y'all, this smells amazing. The coriander comes through a lot more strongly than the last batch. The last batch, being extract, was boiled with the coriander. This one just got a short simmer, with the coriander being steeped for about 15 minutes. It's also a much lighter yellow color, owing to the use of white wheat and 2-row, instead of wheat extract, which came out kind of a copper color.
 
Took a very quick look in tonight, and we have a full-on pellicle. What's happening underneath is anybody's guess. :ban:
 
I have been following this from the beginning, I think I might try to kettle sour a berliner this way with my homemade kraut... updates to follow...
 
Agate said:
View attachment 294215

Dill pickle starter in progress! I wonder how pickling spice would be in a gose...
Click to expand...

That's something I've been wanting to do for a while. Just need to get around to it.

I could put up with peppercorns and clove, but if you try to put garlic and dill in my beer :cross:

I have a dilemma. This time around the lacto culture is strong, and I can smell a bit of tartness, if I lift the airlock. There's still no bubbling of any kind. Is it possible that I've getting some conversion to alcohol without being able to see any surface disturbance, or am I definitely getting a fully bacterial fermentation?

If it's the latter, I'd better start thinking about pitching yeast, I suppose.
 
Leave out the dill, mustard seed, and garlic and you actually have a pretty interesting blend of spices. Yeah, better think of pitching some sacch or Brett in there.
 
burninator said:
That's something I've been wanting to do for a while. Just need to get around to it.

I could put up with peppercorns and clove, but if you try to put garlic and dill in my beer :cross:

I have a dillemma. This time around the lacto culture is strong, and I can smell a bit of tartness, if I lift the airlock. There's still no bubbling of any kind. Is it possible that I've getting some conversion to alcohol without being able to see any surface disturbance, or am I definitely getting a fully bacterial fermentation?

If it's the latter, I'd better start thinking about pitching yeast, I suppose.
Click to expand...

never trust an air lock, always trust science! gotta refractometer around?
 

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