Sanke Keg fermenter

[Randar]

Here is a link to the pressurized fermentation thread. I am sure it is discussed there... much like some of the rest of the thread hijacks seen in this thread (guilty as charged)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

 

[Golddiggie]

I plan on using 3 gallon corny kegs for the balance of 5 gallon batches, so bottling ~2 gallons of the brew... Once I move to 10 gallon batches, I'll figure out how to bottle/serve them... I do like the thought of taking a 3 gallon corny keg to parties/gatherings over using a 5 gallon keg though. I know of one person that has made a backpack that holds a keg, chilled down, and a CO2 tank. He simply has the picnic tap over his shoulder and can fill up a glass easily. Doesn't even need to take the backpack off to add more CO2 to the keg... I wouldn't want to try that with a 5 gallon keg, of any style... ~35# of brew and CO2 bottle (initially) is ok, but it's better as you serve more... Of course, as it's approaching the end, it's more mixed feelings...

 

[dallasdb]

I received two 15.5G sankes recently with plastic tops/bottoms. I think I'm going to try fermenting my next batch in one of them using a carboy cap.

My main issue is moving the vessel. I brew in the garage or in the yard, and my fermentation chamber is in the basement, 40-50' from either location. I'll have to start brainstorming.

I believe the correct term is "keg wrestling."

It is a great workout and part of my new Beer90x workout.

Details below:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/keggle-full-boil-extract-kits-235946/

I don't have a gym membership because I brew:

Keggle wrestling really works the core
Manual Corona Grain Mill works the back, shoulders, and arms
Drinking homebrews while brewing is a lot of repetitions and works the biceps.

There are many variations to my Beer90x workout system. My dvd series will soon run infomercials on late night!

 

[toolboxdiver]

I ferment in 50 liter (about 13 gallons) euro sanke and it's perfect for 10 gallon batches. I do just as you say. I use a #11 rubber stopper and airlock (which will work on a normal sanke as well). I reinsert the spear and use the coupler to force carb with co2 when fermentation is complete. No modification is needed to the keg.

There has been tons written on this on this forum. In particular read Wortmonger's thread on pressurized fermentation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

here's another thread I participated in that's fairly rich with other links to more sanke knowlege:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rubber-keg-use-210243/

great info thanks for your help

 

[toolboxdiver]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with all the great info I'll be using a Sanke fermenter too

 

[JuanMoore]

If you use a sanke coupler, how are you sanitizing the spear valving? Are you going through the step of putting starsan in the keg and forcing it out with CO2?

If you pressure transfer with the spear, are you just cutting off a fixed amount from the spear so you don't get any trub? Seems like a racking cane would allow more flexibility.

I completely disassemble the kegs to clean and sanitize all parts, just like breweries do. I replaced the coil style retaining rings with large snap rings to make it quicker and easier. It's really not much more work than cleaning a carboy, bung, and 3 piece airlock once you get the hang of it. And yes, I simply cut ~1/2" off the bottom of the spear.

 

[vonZwicky]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with all the great info I'll be using a Sanke fermenter too

I'm sure you'll find the use of sankies rewarding. Just take your time and be safe. Read up on it thoroughly before beginning. Beer that's still fermenting can generate incredible pressures in a keg if it's sealed up prematurely. Make sure you use a proper regulator. I've seen kegs that have been blown open by excessive pressure, and it's not pretty. So long as you have a healthy respect for potential energy, you'll be fine.

 

[toolboxdiver]

I'm sure you'll find the use of sankies rewarding. Just take your time and be safe. Read up on it thoroughly before beginning. Beer that's still fermenting can generate incredible pressures in a keg if it's sealed up prematurely. Make sure you use a proper regulator. I've seen kegs that have been blown open by excessive pressure, and it's not pretty. So long as you have a healthy respect for potential energy, you'll be fine.

Thanks, and yes I do respect pressure, I'm a Industrial maintenance mechanic in a steel drum plant so pneumatics are a big part of my job

 

[toolboxdiver]

I completely disassemble the kegs to clean and sanitize all parts, just like breweries do. I replaced the coil style retaining rings with large snap rings to make it quicker and easier. It's really not much more work than cleaning a carboy, bung, and 3 piece airlock once you get the hang of it. And yes, I simply cut ~1/2" off the bottom of the spear.

I cut a inch off mine, might make a second cut off a half inch and give them both a try

 

[vonZwicky]

I cut a inch off mine, might make a second cut off a half inch and give them both a try

A buddy of mine uses this approach: I think he has 3/4" cut from the spear of his fermenter, and then transfers to a serving keg that has about 3/8" cut off the spear. This way he can leave most of the yeast behind in the primary, and still leaves a little room for the yeast that gets through to settle.

Edit: I haven't had the stones to cut any off the spear in my Euro-sankey. I'm still looking for a spare valve stem before I try it. That said, I was able to transfer clear beer from it, I just had to wait a long time for the yeast to settle.

 

[dallasdb]

I've seen kegs that have been blown open by excessive pressure, and it's not pretty.

Please tell me you took pictures and are going to upload them!

 

[vonZwicky]

Please tell me you took pictures and are going to upload them!

I've never actually seen a keg explode, but I've seen the kegs afterwords, and I can only guess at the circumstances that led to it. A homebrew fermentation gone awry, or more likely someone trying to hook an unregulated CO2 source to a keg. I dunno.

The kegs don't break up into shrapnel, but the way they become unseamed at the welds (and sometimes not at the welds), and the metal is twisted, I'm sure it had to be dramatic. I also don't know if/how these kegs were propelled by the blasts. I will postulate this: An exploding empty keg is more dangerous than one that is full of beer because 1)gas will expand much more than liquid when it is released from pressure, and 2) an empty keg has less mass and is more likely to be hurled by the force of the rupture.

If I ever see another of these, I will take pics. No doubt it would be informative for a lot of folks.

 

[dallasdb]

I've never actually seen a keg explode, but I've seen the kegs afterwords, and I can only guess at the circumstances that led to it. A homebrew fermentation gone awry, or more likely someone trying to hook an unregulated CO2 source to a keg. I dunno.QUOTE]


http://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/04/us/exploding-keg-kills-host.html
August 4th 1981 the NY Times reported that a keg exploded and killed a guy. The report guessed the keg heated up when they took it to the beach and blew up when they brought it back to the frat house.

I find it hard to believe that the sun in August in California would heat up a keg enough to make it explode.

I bet he was drunk and just kept pumping the tap to pressurize it as much as he could.

 

[Golddiggie]

You had to look all the way back 30 years to find a keg explosion incident... Nice... Keep in mind, Sanke kegs are only rated up to 60psi... It's stamped right on the top.

Sounds like the frat guy from CA was victim of his own stupidity... Who would leave a keg of BEER in the sun, without cooling it?? Besides blitzed frat boys that is... It probably had more to do with thermal stress from the high temps at the beach, and then putting it into the fridge, and then over-charging it with pressure that did it... IF they had been a bit smarter, the beer would have lived...

 

[HHP]

I don't have a gym membership because I brew:

Keggle wrestling really works the core
Manual Corona Grain Mill works the back, shoulders, and arms
Drinking homebrews while brewing is a lot of repetitions and works the biceps.

There are many variations to my Beer90x workout system. My dvd series will soon run infomercials on late night!

When the DVD comes out send me a PM. If I show this to my platoon sergeant, maybe he will let us do it for morning PT...

 

[vonZwicky]

One doesn't have to go as far back as 30 years:

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2007/12/19/ruling-on-beer-keg-explosion/

This poor guy died just trying to move a keg.

 

[Golddiggie]

One doesn't have to go as far back as 30 years:

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2007/12/19/ruling-on-beer-keg-explosion/

This poor guy died just trying to move a keg.

Great, now the Brady Bunch are probably going to try to prevent us from owning kegs since they kill people...

Still, I would have to say that death by keg explosion is pretty damned rare... IF you're fermenting in it (and under zero excess pressure) you have nothing to worry about. As long as you're properly handling your serving kegs, you also have virtually nothing to worry about. Charge them to a stupid PSI and you better have good life insurance (that doesn't have an 'act of stupidity' clause in it )...

 

[Salmonhouse]

Not much to add, just that i use a Ferm-Rite breathable bung as an airlock.

I still use carboys too. I am tending more to the carboys as of right now because i really like being able to see some kind of activity, where as the keg you dont know what's going on in there, but you dont really need to worry about light exposure either so suit yourself.

I like the idea of using the orange cap with the racking cane to push with co2, at least this way you can push the cane down just enough to not pick up any yeast sediment.

 

[JohnnyO]

In addition to the orange carboy cap and 30" racking cane, what are the other parts to hook up CO2 to push the beer out of the sanke after fermentation?

I have the regulator and hose, but what connection is used at the point of the carboy cap?

 

[Randar]

In addition to the orange carboy cap and 30" racking cane, what are the other parts to hook up CO2 to push the beer out of the sanke after fermentation?

I have the regulator and hose, but what connection is used at the point of the carboy cap?

I had to use a brass adapter to fit to a slightly larger hose and then used a hose clamp to secure the hose slipped OVER the longer/slimmer of the ports on the carboy cap. Work back from a hose that fits securely over that port and convert as needed to the gas line.

 

[JohnnyO]

I had to use a brass adapter to fit to a slightly larger hose and then used a hose clamp to secure the hose slipped OVER the longer/slimmer of the ports on the carboy cap. Work back from a hose that fits securely over that port and convert as needed to the gas line.

This would be a whole lot easier with pictures.

 

[vonZwicky]

Great, now the Brady Bunch are probably going to try to prevent us from owning kegs since they kill people...

Still, I would have to say that death by keg explosion is pretty damned rare... IF you're fermenting in it (and under zero excess pressure) you have nothing to worry about. As long as you're properly handling your serving kegs, you also have virtually nothing to worry about. Charge them to a stupid PSI and you better have good life insurance (that doesn't have an 'act of stupidity' clause in it )...

Golddiggie, you are correct on all counts. Fortunately, keg deaths and injuries are extremely rare. So far, the "Brady Bunch" has other agendas with which to oppress us. I've worked in the industry where I've seen hundreds of kegs daily. Every once in a while one is returned that has ruptured from pressure, or is so bloated that the tops and bottoms are domed out and it looks like it could blow at any minute (scary!). Keg incidents are not that extremely rare, but I imagine only a very small fraction of them result in death, or make the news. There may be something to that old saying: "God looks after drunks and retards."

Sorry guys, I'll go ahead and end my morbid hijack of this thread.

 

[dallasdb]

One doesn't have to go as far back as 30 years:

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2007/12/19/ruling-on-beer-keg-explosion/

This poor guy died just trying to move a keg.

I love that a keg exploded in this poor guys face and the article said post mortem analysis concluded he died of an open head wound. No...really??? Thank you captain obvious.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have a feeling that the more sober, and intelligent, keg users are smart enough to recognize when there could be an issue with a keg... Drunks and retards, not so much... If we lose a few of them in the process (the D&R) then I won't shed any tears... Does this make me a bad person?

We now return you to your irregularly scheduled thread...

BTW, the "Double Tap ESB" I'm fermenting doesn't get it's name from tap handles... :rockin:

 

[Randar]

This would be a whole lot easier with pictures.

Johnny, I will try to remember to take a picture of the setup when I get home. When I only had one CO2 regulator I would "charge" a corny to 30 or 40 PSI and then use a disconnect as an adapter to the hose and would blast the CO2 from the cornie to the sanke in short spurts to get. Now I just have it as a separate hose assembly I can use connected to my 5# tank and regulator and I push mush more gently at around 5 PSI.

 

[Salmonhouse]

I'd like to see that Randar, even though i have an idea what your talking about.

This is a great way to reduce oxygen exposure, i will have to try this.

 

[Randar]

Johnny and Salmon, here is what I was talking about. Really very simple. I just pieced together an "adapter" for the 1/4" ID to 1/2" ID hoses out of brass parts from Home Depot and hose clamp it together. The 1/2" ID hose fits over the longer/skinnier port on the carboy cap. Just use the smallest size hose clamp that will fit over the 1/2" ID tubing and it will seal nicely once screwed down over the carboy cap port.

 

[dallasdb]

Is that a black plastic regulator?

 

[Randar]

Is that a black plastic regulator?

It is painted or coated metal...

 

[Salmonhouse]

Ok, and then there is a racking cane that has a hose on it that leads to a keg coupler?

 

[Randar]

Ok, and then there is a racking cane that has a hose on it that leads to a keg coupler?

Racking cane can lead to a cornie disconnect for kegging or a Sanke coupler, or anything else you wanna hook it up to. I usually just place the hose into the bottom of a cornie/Sanke/bottling bucket and start transferring. The disruption of that first blast of beer into the bottom of the cornie/sanke (which I store under pressure till use anyways) will ensure there is CO2 blanket being pushed off above the beer.

 

[HoppyGus]

I tried the orange cap thingy on my sanke and it didn't fit. But I have a tri-clover for it now and it fits perfect. Until I get that drilled out and tapped, I will use a rubber bung....for the bung hole. haha never gets old

 

[slakwhere]

randar, how are you avoiding the yeast cake? are you just sliding the racking cane into the orange carboy cap slowly until you see yeast? or are you angling and trying to hit the bottom corner of the sanke? or are you just guessing at how tall the yeast cake is and marking the racking cane?

 

[Golddiggie]

I tried the orange cap thingy on my sanke and it didn't fit. But I have a tri-clover for it now and it fits perfect. Until I get that drilled out and tapped, I will use a rubber bung....for the bung hole. haha never gets old

So you're going to get your bung hole DRILLED and then tapped?? Ouch...

Didn't have too much trouble getting the orange cap to fit the hole in my Sanke keg... It was a bit snug, but I like it that way. Still, the large universal bung fits it really well too, plus they're cheaper... I'll be getting at least three more when I go to the LHBS next... Might need to get a few more airlocks too... Need to retire the ones with the partially blocked bottoms (X pattern there) since I like the ones that are wide open better... More personal preference I think... Less obstruction...

 

[HoppyGus]

Ouch! sounds like a dangerous weekend.

I read somewhere that someone cut the sanke dip tube short, put a sank coupler on top without the gas check valve and fermented, chilled, carbonated and served all out of the same keg. Sounds easy enough but I would be worried that I'd pull trub every pint. You would have to be pretty accurate with your dip tube cutting.

 

[Randar]

randar, how are you avoiding the yeast cake? are you just sliding the racking cane into the orange carboy cap slowly until you see yeast? or are you angling and trying to hit the bottom corner of the sanke? or are you just guessing at how tall the yeast cake is and marking the racking cane?

I start with it submerged about 3/4 of the way in, and then once it sputters I slowly work it down till I see yeast and try to hold it steady thereafter. You could start out with it all the way down to the top of the yeast cake, though, so long as you can keep the racking cane steady/

 

[slakwhere]

so you end up with just a little yeast in your cornie? that's the only thing i like about my carboy, i can see through it so i know what's going on in there...

 

[camiller]

I tried the orange cap thingy on my sanke and it didn't fit. But I have a tri-clover for it now and it fits perfect. Until I get that drilled out and tapped, I will use a rubber bung....for the bung hole. haha never gets old

Always used to be two sizes of the orange carboy caps. One for the Mexican made ones and one for the Italian made. Since the Mexican factory shut down and they are all from Italy now, my LHBS usually only has the narrower one.

 

[Randar]

I tried the orange cap thingy on my sanke and it didn't fit. But I have a tri-clover for it now and it fits perfect. Until I get that drilled out and tapped, I will use a rubber bung....for the bung hole. haha never gets old

Mine didn't fit either at first, but that's why we have evolved to have forearm strength and opposable thumbs.

Heat up the cap in some really hot water first to make it more maleable if you have to.

 

[Randar]

so you end up with just a little yeast in your cornie? that's the only thing i like about my carboy, i can see through it so i know what's going on in there...

Barely noticeable in the first glass and after that nothing. You will always have a little bit of yeast drop out later unless you filter it.