Samischlaus BJCP

[Roadie]

Thinking of brewing a Samischlaus type dopplebock but wondering where in the BJCP categories it would fit. Schloss Eggenberg calls it a dopplebock but at 14% abv it exceeds the dopplebock guideline which says up to 10%. Thinking it may be a little sweeter as well. Any judges out there with an opinion? I guess I could enter it as a clone beer but have never done that before.

 

[Roadie]

Buehler... buehler...

 

[z-bob]

(I am not a judge nor an expert) I didn't think there was a top end for Dopplebock. But maybe that's the German definition, not BJCP.

 

[InLimbo]

BJCP judge here. You need to decide: do you want to brew a Samichlaus? Or do you want to brew a dopplebock (or really any beer in particular) that has the best chance possible placing in a BJCP sanctioned event? Unless you brew the absolute smoothest 14% dopplebock out there, any judge worth his badge is goin to assign you an automatic 29 for being out of style guidelines.

I took a glance through the style guidelines, and honestly I don't know where you could enter a samichlaus clone and get a semi reasonable score. Some beers are just too distinct to do well in a competition within the strict confines of the BJCP guidelines.

 

[lump42]

BJCP judge here. You need to decide: do you want to brew a Samichlaus? Or do you want to brew a dopplebock (or really any beer in particular) that has the best chance possible placing in a BJCP sanctioned event? Unless you brew the absolute smoothest 14% dopplebock out there, any judge worth his badge is goin to assign you an automatic 29 for being out of style guidelines.

I took a glance through the style guidelines, and honestly I don't know where you could enter a samichlaus clone and get a semi reasonable score. Some beers are just too distinct to do well in a competition within the strict confines of the BJCP guidelines.

I'm not a judge, but I completely agree with this. The BJCP are guidelines for judging in BJCP competitions. Not every beer will fit in their category. You need to decided if you are brewing for yourself or for competition.

 

[IkeKrizzule]

Bjcp has a category 34A for clone beer. If you want to brew a clone attempt put it there as a samichlaus clone.

 

[Roadie]

Yes, I'm thinking it's too sweet for dopplebock regardless of abv. I guess I may try 34A for the first time.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Clone Beer sounds like the spot to me. Just make sure you describe it properly- cloning the commercial isn't the goal, cloning it's "style" is. Stronger, sweeter Doppelbock.

 

[kelitore]

Certified judge here - could look at entering it as an Eisbock is it fits the parameters

 

[Roadie]

I medaled for an Eisbock a few months ago. Didn’t think this would be an Eisbock. Just saw what an incredible amount of yeast was recommended for this beer. Multiple step starter for sure so that in itself will take a while. I’ll probably enter as a clone beer and see what happens.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Eisbock could work, but it's distinct enough I'd still lean clone beer.

 

[Roadie]

Brewing this today and what a B|tch. The first stuck mash if my life. This brew is really fighting me.

 

[bmaupin]

Interested to hear how yours goes. I brewed one 2 months ago ... still in primary hoping some S-189 can drop it a few more points from 1.028 - 1.116 OG and WLP833.

 

[Roadie]

I won a bag of pre-ground Pils that I used 29 pounds of for this recipe. Must have been a little fine for my system so my step mash day has been tough due to the mash sticking twice. I’m feeling kind of defeated at this point. Mashout, sparge and boil still to go. I did build a trillion cells of Zurich Lager yeast so we’ll see how that goes.

1.028 is not a bad final gravity for this beer. My recipe says 1.130-1.030.

 

[bmaupin]

what did you end up with for an OG? what was your grain bill?

 

[Roadie]

Good question. I ended up with 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and another .75 gallons in the BK. The gravity of all that was 1.110. I removed a gallon today from the fermenter added it to the .75 from the BK, boiled down 50% and added back to fermenter after cooling. Going to let temp stabilize then pitch. My refractometer only goes to 1.120 so no idea what the gravity was going back into the fermenter and how that affected total final gravity. There’s a formula somewhere but I didn’t do the math.

 

[bmaupin]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

calculator gives me 1.127 at 4.75 gal. nice

what other grains and sugars did you use?

 

[Roadie]

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/falconclaws-samichlaus/ is what I used but scaled it to my system.

 

[Roadie]

Someone in my club did the math and said 1.129... regardless I’m calling it 1.130! [emoji6]

I thought with my large starter I’d need a blow off but after 4 days it still only has an inch or so of krausen. Bubbles have increased today to 1 every 3 seconds from 1 every 5. I usually ferment to FG in 5-7 days but not this time! I’ll let it go until it’s done though right now no idea how long that will be. Going to take a gravity reading this weekend for grins. Hopeful it ferments down to the 1.030 in the recipe.

 

[Roadie]

After 6 days it’s 50% attenuated so raised it 5 degrees yesterday and another 5 today.

 

[bmaupin]

Sounds like you'll ferment out no problem. Following

 

[Roadie]

I hope so as I’m doing the quick ferment method even with this huge beer so we’ll see what happens. Instead of raising the temp 5 degrees every 12 hours I raised it 5 every 24 and now just bumped it up 3 degrees to 65.

 

[bmaupin]

Any update? I've been busy brewing lately and haven't tasted or fully carbed mine up yet - sitting in my cold room at 55°.

 

[Roadie]

This beer is a pain in my a$$! It was a mistake to start quick ferment at 50% attenuation on this beer. It stalled at 1.060. Pitched 2 packs of 34/70 on 10/21 at 52 degrees and now it’s down to 1.040. Increased temp today to 58 and going to try to still get to 1.030 but not sure I’ll make it. This has, and continues to tie up my fermenter. I don’t envision ever brewing this again!

 

[IkeKrizzule]

Whatever it is it is at this point. If you've got a place that is regular room temp (70F or under) move it there and let it finish what it will. You still might finish high but no reason to keep tying up your ferment chamber if you don't want to, the flavour profile is set.

 

[Roadie]

A friend is coming over Sunday to brew on my system. I’m thinking I’ll be at it again soon. No lager though!

 

[Roadie]

I did get down to 1.030 from 1.130. Been in keezer a couple of months. It’s smooth for a 15% abv beer but it’s one you can age for years to have it really open up.

 

[bmaupin]

That's great - thanks for the update!

I've drank a little of mine. It is also quite smooth with no hot alcohol flavors, just a bit sweet. I did acquire a pack of WLP885 for next time. For others info that find this thread, here's my recipe.

Samichlaus - Doppelbock
===================
Batch Size 5.500 gal
OG 1.116 sg
FG 1.028 sg
ABV 14.7%
Bitterness 29.5 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 17.2 srm (Morey)
Mashed at 150F, boiled for 2.5hours since I over sparged to increase efficiency

Fermentables
===================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Weyermann - Pilsner Malt Grain 15.000 lb Yes No 81% 2.4 srm
Weyermann - Vienna Malt Grain 5.000 lb Yes No 78% 4.0 srm
Weyermann - Carahell Grain 1.000 lb No No 75% 13.0 srm
Weyermann - Dark Munich Malt Grain 1.000 lb No No 78% 9.0 srm
Castle Special B Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 77% 113.0 srm
Candy Syrup DIY Sugar 4.000 oz No No 100% 180.0 srm
Weyermann - Dehusked Carafa III Grain 1.000 oz Yes No 70% 520.0 srm
Total grain: 22.812 lb

Hops
===================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Magnum 12.4% 0.940 oz Boil 1.000 hr Pellet 20.4
Hallertau 4.3% 1.000 oz Boil 30.000 min Pellet 5.8
Hersbrucker 2.5% 1.000 oz Boil 30.000 min Pellet 3.4

Yeast WLP833 - 1.5 M cells / P°

Next time I will eliminate the Carahell, add 1lb total DIY Candi Syrup and 0.5lb table sugar in hopes to dry it out - I'd like it to finish around 1.020. Probably up the ibus to upper 30's to account for ibu fade over time.

 

[Roadie]

Yes, mine is definitely sweet as well which I can deal with as this is a sipper not a gulper. Had a 4 year old bottle of the real thing and it was sweet as well.

 

[bmaupin]

last month I put my 1.5 year old Samichlaus onto a yeast cake from a helles made with wlp885 and it went from 1.028 to 1.014 in 3 weeks with a slow consistent burping. back in the keg and tasting quite good and at 13.9%. only surprising thing is that the beer is a little cloudy while the helles is crystal clear.

btw, the helles I made tastes like a saison. yes, fermented at 50.