Same PSI but two different levels of carbonation

[mjlower]

Generally I am able to find most my questions answered on here with ease, but this one has me stumped..

My current set up is two kegs hooked up to a split gas line with one regulator. I generally brew the same styles so the carbonation levels are usually the same for both beers I have tapped. I had a wheat and BierMuncher's Cream of Three Crops on tap. Both were on gas for 3+ weeks at the same levels (10-12 PSI). The wheat came out nicely carbonated while the C3C was noticeably under-carbonated.

The wheat is ~ 5# 2-row, 4# white wheat, .5# oats

Both are poured via Perlick 630ss faucets. The only difference is the wheat had a beer line of 5 feet, while the C3C had a line of 10 feet.

Question - Could the beer line lengths make a difference in the carbonation levels? Or would the styles just need that much of a difference in PSI? Or is this just in my head?

Any help is much appreciated!

 

[falkaveli]

How are you judging carbonation? What is the temperature of the fridge and the internal diameter of the beer line?

Without further information, here's my guess. The shorter line on that wheat is providing less resistance, creating a stronger pour and more CO2 release on contact with the glass. Additionally, the adjuncts in the grain bill probably gives you a fantastic, frothy head which further (visually) shows a sign of good carbonation.

Hold your glass lower when you pour the C3C and let it "splash" a bit more. It will allow for more CO2 release and a nicer head.

 

[nolasuperbass]

+1 on it being your perception. The principles of physics dictate that they both be the same level of carbonation. Most people would say that 10 psi is under-carbed for both. Except for stouts (which some people like lower), and Belgians (which most people like higher), 13-14 psi is typical for most beers. 5 feet of beer line is too short. It's kicking the CO2 out during the pour and, with the adjuncts in the wheat beer, is giving the impression of higher carbonation. Turn your pressure up, replace the 5 feet with 10 feet, and then give it few weeks to equalize. That should fix it.

 

[mjlower]

-falkaveli

I'm trying hard not to base my perception of carbonation solely on the appearance; although, I do have a better head with the wheat than the C3C, but both still lace nicely. There are noticeably more 'bubbles' in suspension with the wheat. But mostly, the C3C just tastes/feels flat.

The line I believe are 3/16" - it's been a few years since I bought them..

Temps are typically in the mid 40's. 44-46*. But with that said.. my fridge allows me to fit 2 at a diagonal, so the wheat is near the back while the C3C was towards the front.. I imagine the wheat was colder as well..

So by allowing the beer to splash a bit more while pouring, will create more carbonation? I didn't realize that... I've always attempted to not splash in fear that it would lose carbonation.. perhaps I've been going about it wrong this whole time..

 

[mjlower]

-nolasuperbass

I do agree I need to kick up the psi, that stems back from my days of crappy faucets, where I would get foam for a few seconds, so I always turned down the psi to alleviate that. But now with the nicer perlicks, I need to get back in the correct range..

I definitely need to review my setup and learn more about beverage line lengths and the effects on carbonation, I thought 5' was long enough, but I think you're right.. need to up my game.

The wheat just kicked last night, so I'll hook up the 10' line to it and crank the psi a bit and see how that fares.

 

[Iseneye]

So by allowing the beer to splash a bit more while pouring, will create more carbonation? I didn't realize that... I've always attempted to not splash in fear that it would lose carbonation.. perhaps I've been going about it wrong this whole time..

Splashing won't create more carbonation. It will release C02 from solution or whatever the correct terminology. The carbonation levels for both beers have to be the same if they have been carbonated for the same period of time and are on a split gas line.

 

[TechyDork]

Are you using a simple Y fitting to split out the CO2 line to the kegs, or do you have a distribution block with two valves on it?

I ask because I have accidentally bumped one of the valve partially closed on mine when moving kegs around.

 

[doug293cz]

Could be a sticky check valve on the C3C side of the splitter that requires a higher pressure differential to open. This would cause the pressure in the keg headspace to be lower than the regulator pressure, leading to under carbonation. You can make a pressure checking regulator out of:

• A pressure gauge
• A threaded coupler
• A threaded hose barb
• Short piece of CO2 gas tubing
• Keg gas side QD with barb.

Disconnect the gas QD from the regulator and connect the stand alone gauge. Does it read the same as the regulator gauge?

Brew on

 

[mjlower]

Splashing won't create more carbonation. It will release C02 from solution or whatever the correct terminology.

So if the beer is properly carbonated, splashing would release the CO2, perceiving it to be flat, right? Or am I misunderstanding the phrase 'release from solution'?

Are you using a simple Y fitting to split out the CO2 line to the kegs, or do you have a distribution block with two valves on it?

It is the Y fitting.

Could be a sticky check valve on the C3C side of the splitter that requires a higher pressure differential to open. This would cause the pressure in the keg headspace to be lower than the regulator pressure, leading to under carbonation.

That's interesting, I like that idea.. I have noticed my beer post leaks at time with the slightest movement.. perhaps my gas post isn't allowing enough CO2 into the keg at all times to properly carb it.. I don't have a leak, I do know that but if it gets knocked off the post, that's a distinct possibility. Might have to invest in new post (old used keg, so might need upgraded)

 

[PapaO]

Switch the beer lines and see if the C3C tastes/feels flat.

 

[Balloonknot]

I believe cream ales and Wheat beers should have different levels of carbonation no? Wheat beers usually require higher volumes of CO_2?

 

[falkaveli]

Switch the beer lines and see if the C3C tastes/feels flat.

^^this

Definitely need to up your PSI if they are at 45-ish degrees. Couple other questions:

1) Probably not the case, but did you prime it with sugar in the keg?
2) Did you store your keg warm for any length of time before putting it in the kegerator?

Reason I ask the above questions is perhaps you hadn't hit FG yet and kegged the wheat...let it sit at room temp and it naturally over carbonated. Oooor...you could have a brett infection that took hold and started eating up some of your dextrins.

 

[mjlower]

Sorry for the hiatus - I need to fix my settings to notify me when my thread has some activity..

I believe the problem lies in the gas post/disconnect connection - somehow it keeps getting knocked loose and I believe it wasn't on gas as long as I believed it to be (or should have been). I disconnected and connected and made sure it was on good - as I carbed another keg at 30psi for 24 hrs, I threw the C3C on 30 for ~12 hrs to give it a little boost. A boost it got - definitely carbed up now. Taste, feels, and looks the same while being poured thru both lines. Was a big hit this past weekend with an impromptu family gathering at the house.

Thanks for the info and suggestions all, much appreciated!

 

[peterj]

So by allowing the beer to splash a bit more while pouring, will create more carbonation? I didn't realize that... I've always attempted to not splash in fear that it would lose carbonation.. perhaps I've been going about it wrong this whole time..

No, you had it right. The suggestions to let it splash are incorrect. By letting it splash and "releasing more of the carbonation" you would be reducing the CO2 left in the beer and would have less carbonation when you drink it. You would have more head, but it would be at the expense of a lower carbonation in the glass.

Temps are typically in the mid 40's. 44-46*. But with that said.. my fridge allows me to fit 2 at a diagonal, so the wheat is near the back while the C3C was towards the front.. I imagine the wheat was colder as well..

I was going to say that this could have been your problem. If the C3C was warmer than the wheat then it would not absorb as much CO2 at the same pressure. But it sounds below like maybe you got it fixed. You should definitely go for at least 10 ft lines though. 5 ft is too short.

Sorry for the hiatus - I need to fix my settings to notify me when my thread has some activity..

I believe the problem lies in the gas post/disconnect connection - somehow it keeps getting knocked loose and I believe it wasn't on gas as long as I believed it to be (or should have been). I disconnected and connected and made sure it was on good - as I carbed another keg at 30psi for 24 hrs, I threw the C3C on 30 for ~12 hrs to give it a little boost. A boost it got - definitely carbed up now. Taste, feels, and looks the same while being poured thru both lines. Was a big hit this past weekend with an impromptu family gathering at the house.

Thanks for the info and suggestions all, much appreciated!