saison with american hops

[Ashebrewro]

Hi, I'm wanting to brew a saison soon and I have a bunch of American hops my wife bought me that I'd like to use if I can. Citra, Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, simcoe, amarillo, mosaic, she went crazy but I'm not complaining. I was going to try out the belle saison dry yeast. I would like to use hops already on hand but I don't want to cover up the yeast character. Any thoughts on what might work?

 

[Aristotelian]

There was just a thread on this. Depending on where you are, the key will be keeping the temp warm. Sounds like an interesting beer. The question is do you want it to taste like a saison with American hops, or an IPA with saison character?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=543372&page=6

 

[joshesmusica]

Tank 7 from Boulevard is a saison brewed with amarillo. I'm not into saisons, but if you are, experimenting with all sorts of hops is not a bad idea at all.

 

[1977Brewer]

Mosaic Saison is outstanding. I bet Cascade would be great too.

 

[JonM]

How about a less potent American hop? I used American Cluster in my last saison and it was great. It lends a spiciness that was great with the yeast and the actual spice I put in there.

 

[Owly055]

Hi, I'm wanting to brew a saison soon and I have a bunch of American hops my wife bought me that I'd like to use if I can. Citra, Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, simcoe, amarillo, mosaic, she went crazy but I'm not complaining. I was going to try out the belle saison dry yeast. I would like to use hops already on hand but I don't want to cover up the yeast character. Any thoughts on what might work?

My first thought was Amarillo and/or Mosaic........ Your American hops are mostly pretty citrusy...... Willamette or Columbia would be good American hops that would not be far out of the Saison character. As I read this, I'm sipping a saison made with Aramis, Willamette, and Ahtanum..... it's a great saison, and the Belle Saison character comes through strongly even though it has over an ounce per gallon of hops. My Imperial Saison was made using Amarillo, Willamette, and Calliente, with Summit for bittering, and also was hopped at over an ounce per gallon and was quite good...... most of the hops were either late addition or whirlpool in both cases, the IBUs being around 30. I also did a Nugged single hop Saison which I really liked with the IBUs up at 50.

The key with Belle Saison if you want to emphasize the saison character is to ferment very warm. I ferment right in the kitchen in summer, and the temps often hit as high as 90, as I do not air condition. If I want saison character, I don't bother trying to control fermentation temps.

Considering the fact that "saison" is a Belgian or French farmhouse brew, the style is by definition very loose..... it was made using the hops and grains that were available at any particular farm.

I also made a very creditable imitation of a Belgian Wit using Belle Saison fermented at far cooler temps where the character if completely different.... It wasn't the right yeast for the job, but the result was surprisingly good... and convincing.


H.W.

 

[sd_brewbie]

I did a mosaic/citra saison with a pound of honey. Was originally planning a clean yeast like us-05, but last minute I switched it up and pitched wlp565 and fermented at the low 80's. Turned out tasty, everyone loved it, but I think the yeast dominated the flavor, not leaving much of the hops. My keg of it just kicked last week

 

[rupert130]

Mosaic gets my vote. Also cascade and amarillo

 

[teamcoaster]

I made a deliberate choice to use Centennial hops for my second and subsequent saisons. I find the citrusy character of centennial goes well with the grapefruity flavors I get using Belgian Saison 3724 yeast fermented at >90*F.

I shoot for 35-40 total IBU, some of which I get from magnum or brewers gold bittering addition; the rest from FWH, 30 and 15 minute additions of centennial.

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

I recently made a saison with the Saison II strain from White Labs. Half was racked on top of apricot and the other was dry hopped with Citra at .50 oz/gallon. With the hops you listed I'd personally go with Citra, Amarillo, and Mosaic.

I'd also recommend the WLP 566 Saison II strain over the Dupont strain (WLP 565/Wyeast 3724) as its much less finicky.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Hi, I'm wanting to brew a saison soon and I have a bunch of American hops my wife bought me that I'd like to use if I can. Citra, Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, simcoe, amarillo, mosaic, she went crazy but I'm not complaining. I was going to try out the belle saison dry yeast. I would like to use hops already on hand but I don't want to cover up the yeast character. Any thoughts on what might work?

The Belle Saison yeast is bland in comparison to other saison strains and is a monster attenuater you may have a hard time not covering up it's character with those hops. That said I would make a hoppy American saison with that yeast and any of those hops and expect it to be good.

 

[Ashebrewro]

There was just a thread on this. Depending on where you are, the key will be keeping the temp warm. Sounds like an interesting beer. The question is do you want it to taste like a saison with American hops, or an IPA with saison character?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=543372&page=6

I would prefer a saison taste vs an IPA with saison character but I would be ok with an saisonish IPA I have had a couple of farmhouse IPA's that I really enjoyed and had considered going with an IPA recipe that I use a good bit and just switching the yeast and seeing how it comes out.

 

[z-bob]

I saw the subject and was going to recommend Willamette, but you don't have that one. I bet Mosaic would be good. Or just us a little Chinook for bitterness and leave it at that. Saisons are dry, and you don't want to overhop them.

Tank 7 from Boulevard is a saison brewed with amarillo.

I bought a bunch of 750ml bottles of Tank 7 on closeout. I really like it. (The other Boulevard "Smokestack Series" were meh, although I bought them after their prime and maybe they didn't age well)

 

[Ashebrewro]

Those saying mosaic or cascade, If you have a recipe you would be willing to share I would love to see it.

 

[Aristotelian]

I would prefer a saison taste vs an IPA with saison character but I would be ok with an saisonish IPA I have had a couple of farmhouse IPA's that I really enjoyed and had considered going with an IPA recipe that I use a good bit and just switching the yeast and seeing how it comes out.

In that case, whichever hops you use, keep to the style profile, which is 25-40 IBU., maybe 1 oz total for 5 gal recipe. Also stick with Pilsener/Belgian style base malt.

 

[z-bob]

I have not brewed this, just messing around with a recipe on my brew list...

For 5 gallons, use 9 pounds of imported Pilsen malt, 12 ounces of sugar, and 4 ounces of... I don't know, something with a little color and flavor to it like melanoidin or caramel wheat malt. That should give you about 6% ABV. You can leave out the sugar and get about 5.3%

1 ounce of Mosaic at 15 minutes, OR a 1/2 ounce at 60 minutes (not sure which would be better, they are both about the same bitterness)

 

[Rdom]

I've had good luck with Amarillo in a saison late in the boil (like Tank 7). Cascade might be nice too (just bottled a Saison with homegrown cascade late in the boil but haven't tasted it yet though the hydrometer sample tasted nice). Mosaic can overpower so use cautiously if you want the saison yeast character to shine.

 

[mb82]

I have done saisons with both Cascade near the end and Cluster. I think the Cluster tasted better but the cascade was pretty good.

 

[Ashebrewro]

What kind of hop schedule have you used. I might try the Amarillo and or cascade.

 

[sd_brewbie]

As I mentioned before, was planning some sort of Honey blonde but decided last minute to make it a saison. Bumping up the honey malt might give it a good twist.

Recipe: Honey Something
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.76 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 4.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 88.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs Pilsner (2.3 SRM) Grain 1 79.0 %
8.0 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 2 4.9 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.9 %
0.40 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 4 16.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 15.0 m Hop 5 9.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 3.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison I Ale (White Labs #WLP565 Yeast 7 -
1 lbs 2.0 oz Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 11.1 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 2.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 4.50 gal of water at 162.1 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.34 gal water at 168.0 F

 

[Rdom]

What kind of hop schedule have you used. I might try the Amarillo and or cascade.

I've done noble hops at 60min for 20-25 IBU'S then enough Amarillo at 10 minutes to bring you up to ~35 IBU'S or Amarillo at flameout with a 10-15 min hopstand. Cascade or Citra would be fine for bittering as well.

 

[z-bob]

I have done saisons with both Cascade near the end and Cluster. I think the Cluster tasted better but the cascade was pretty good.

Cluster is a very interesting choice. Thanks for the idea.

 

[unclebrazzie]

Citra Saison work like a charm, but be warned: C-hops turn your saison into a "hoppy farmhouse IPA" unless you dose them right.

 

[Hujo]

I like to use about 8% each of rye, wheat and oats, then a couple of ounces of Cascade and Mosaic in the whirlpool. Low IBUs, lots of yeast character and plenty aromatic.

 

[Ashebrewro]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I will report back on what I end up with and how it turns out.