saison recipe advice

[andrewmaixner]

(This is the first recipe I have just put together after reading up on a style, i am pretty new to brewing)

Had a Saison the other day, liked it. Read up on the style a bit, and put together a basic recipe, with my main goal being 'relatively easy'. Any feedback is welcome, as to whether I will get the characteristic flavor with this, or if I need to add some spices, etc. I am hoping for LOW ABV and low FG, 'hot day beer' for this.

Debating using the Wyeast 3711(seems to be the more forgiving and easy of the more established Saison yeasts from reviews), or the new dry one: Lallemand Belle Saisonsince it is supposed to be very forgiving and fast, though some reviews indicate the possibility of less characteristic flavor?
I have a closet that stays around 80F and could add insulation if needed to go higher.

• 
  Batch Size: 5.25 gal Style: Saison (16C)
  Boil Size: 4.19 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2008
  Color: 4.9 SRM
  Bitterness: 25.4 IBUs
  Boil Time: 60 min
  Est OG: 1.039 (9.7° P)
  Est FG: 1.003 SG (0.9° P) Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
  ABV: 4.7%
  
  Ingredients Amount Name Type #
  8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 1
  2 lbs Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Grain 2
  2.0 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.8%] - Boil 60 min Hops 3
  3 lbs DME Golden Light (Briess) [Boil for 5 min] (4.0 SRM) Grain 4
  1.0 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.8%] - Steep 10 min Hops 5
  1 pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast 6

 

[kingwood-kid]

I'd drop the crystal malt, as it isn't typical of the flavor and dryness of a saison. You can sub in sugar, extract, a lightly toasted malt like Biscuit or Victory, or nothing at all. Everything else looks fine.

You shouldn't need to raise the temps beyond room temp for either yeast you mentioned. I've never tried Belle Saison, but I used 3711 once, and wasn't floored. The beer was fine, and quite dry; I just like a more assertive flavor in my saisons. What saison did you try and what flavors from it did you like?

 

[andrewmaixner]

It was from a local brewpub, beer was named Bière D’été ( http://menureach.com/3base/#/menu-item/bire-dt ). I liked the very mild sour flavor, and 'other stuff' that I couldn't immediately identify.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Consider steeping like 2-4 oz acid malt with 8 oz Pilsner malt at 150 instead of the crystal for tartness and replacing the Golden Light extract with Pilsen extract if available. I vote 3711 over Belle Saison but I like them both.

 

[revelation]

Definitely go with Pilsner extract if you can get it. Also think about a spicer hop like Perle instead of Hersbrucker. I tend to use a neutral bittering hop like Magnum or Nugget and then Perle as the flavor/aroma hop.

If you are really into learning the style, I'd recommend Markowski's Farmhouse Ales book.

 

[flars]

Keep WY3711 under 77°F or you will get off flavors. 3711 will add peppery notes to the beer.

 

[BigPerm]

Some people like a small percentage of caramunich to add some complexity and a little color, but you don't really need it. Acid malt won't convert itself, so you run the risk of a starch haze and reduced stability if you use it without doing it in a small mash with a base malt (as was mentioned).

If you can get it, I would replace the entire extract in the recipe with pilsner extract. If you want to use wheat extract, 1lb should be plenty. A number of great saisons are made with only pilsner malt. I think your choice of hops is fine, although something with some citrus character at the end will play nicely with the yeast aromatics (think citra). Saaz is nice too (not citrus though).

Either 3711 or Belle Saison will get you where you want to go. If you can get to 80F, do it, but stick it in there after fermentation gets started. The extra esters will be nice to provide character to a small beer.

Good luck!

 

[kingwood-kid]

If you want a saison that's a little tart, you might try White Labs Saison III, aka WLP585. The manufacturer's description is "Produces beer with a high fruit ester characteristic, as well as some slight tartness. Finishes slightly malty, which balances out the esters. Also produces low levels of clovey phenolics. Great yeast choice for a summer Saison that is light and easy-drinking." When I used it, I got 86% attenuation, and a light, tart beer.

The beer you linked to used crystal and simcoe hops, which will give you some spice (Crystal) and some American-style fruit/pine. Their grain bill doesn't have any specialty malt, just Pils, Golden Promise and Wheat. To make a much lighter version of it, I'd use the recipe you listed at the top, subbing some wheat extract in for the Crystal, and adding an ounce of Simcoe, split between flameout and dry-hop. I have no idea which yeast they used, but any Saison yeast will work, even if they'll all give you different beers.

 

[mspindler]

I really have to recommend White labs Saison II for a low ABV low FG Saison. This yeast really dries a beer out. I recently made a beer with this yeast that had only base malt, flaked wheat, and motueka hops. Started at 1.040, finished at 1.003, carb'd it high. The keg is almost gone now, but it's the most refreshing beer I've ever brewed. The yeast gives a more fruity character and the floral, fruity and spicy nose is fantastic! Of course I did a 24-hour sour mash, which you may be able to duplicate with some acid malt or lactic acid. As others have recommended, drop the crystal.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Followup:
I made a super-basic 5gal batch and split it between WY3711(smack) and Belle Saison(dry):
3 lbs Breiss Pilsen DME (3.0 SRM)
3 lbs Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
1.0 oz Simcoe [13.0%] - Boil 20 min
1.0 oz Crystal [3.5%] - Steep 20 min
cooled, whirlpooled, racked to two 3G fermenters, oxygenated, and pitched straight
Fermented at 78 for two weeks, ramped up to 85 for 2 weeks to finish the last few points.

Measurements:

Style                  ABV        OG         FG
Saison (wy3711)        5.11%     1.045     1.006
Saison (belle saison)  5.50%     1.045     1.003

Bottled each half with 6.5 Tbsp D-glucose. Ended up with a good refreshing beer, slightly tart. My small sampling of MBC aficionados liked it also. In my opinion, there is a minimal difference between the two. To my untrained palate, the Belle batch might be described as less 'complex'. I'll take it to the next club meet and get some trained opinions.

 

[andrewmaixner]

At the homebrew club meet, the 3711 was the favorite of the two by about 90%. The other 10% strongly preferred the less complex, but still good, belle saison. Decided that the 3711 has a mild peppery flavor to it, plus a little something else. They both have just the slightest of banana aroma, which I didn't notice until it was pointed out to me.

I dumped filtered/pasteurized pure apple juice onto the yeast cakes after bottling, and at three weeks the ciders tasted slightly different, but not different enough to matter, so I moved them to secondary together in the same vessel.
Saved the 3711 for future use.

 

[andrewmaixner]

After another month sitting in bottles, the difference between the two has become less distinct. If I just grab one of the two without looking at the label, I can't accurately guess which one it is with any reliability, unless they are side-by-side. I found this interesting.