Ring of gunk in bottle neck 3 days after bottling

[Yjie91]

Hi, need help on this issue that I am currently having.

I have just recently brewed a Hefe with a Muntons Wheat Beer can with WB-06 yeast. I've also added about 2lbs of wheat DME to the brew. Fermentation went fine and I proceeded with bottling.

I should mention that I rinsed the PET bottles a day before bottling and capped each bottle after the rinse to prevent anything from entering the bottle. On bottling day, I uncapped the bottles and drained the water out and sprayed Starsan in and around the bottle, the cap thread, and the cap itself. The bottling wand was also dismantled, rinsed with water, and sprayed with Starsan.

So, on the issue now; 1 and 2 days after bottling, I saw a ring of foam(?) made of bubbles around the neck of the bottle and on the surface of the beer. There was also a haze just below the surface of the beer which I hope was suspended yeast. On day 3 (today), there is a ring of sediment(?) or gunk(?) slightly above the the surface of the beer.

I am now anxious as anything that my beer somehow got infected. Please let me know your thoughts on this!

Thank you!

 

[Miraculix]

Hi, need help on this issue that I am currently having.

I have just recently brewed a Hefe with a Muntons Wheat Beer can with WB-06 yeast. I've also added about 2lbs of wheat DME to the brew. Fermentation went fine and I proceeded with bottling.

I should mention that I rinsed the PET bottles a day before bottling and capped each bottle after the rinse to prevent anything from entering the bottle. On bottling day, I uncapped the bottles and drained the water out and sprayed Starsan in and around the bottle, the cap thread, and the cap itself. The bottling wand was also dismantled, rinsed with water, and sprayed with Starsan.

So, on the issue now; 1 and 2 days after bottling, I saw a ring of foam(?) made of bubbles around the neck of the bottle and on the surface of the beer. There was also a haze just below the surface of the beer which I hope was suspended yeast. On day 3 (today), there is a ring of sediment(?) or gunk(?) slightly above the the surface of the beer.

I am now anxious as anything that my beer somehow got infected. Please let me know your thoughts on this!

Thank you!

Sounds like a bottle Kräusen to me. How long did you wait till bottling? What was the final gravity?

Sounds to me like the beer continues to ferment in the bottle, be careful, check regularly for overcarbonation, otherwise you'll have bottle bombs.

Wb06 is diastetic and it will ferment close to a fg of 1.0 but that takes time. If you bottled too early it could be problematic.

 

[Yjie91]

Sounds like a bottle Kräusen to me. How long did you wait till bottling? What was the final gravity?

Sounds to me like the beer continues to ferment in the bottle, be careful, check regularly for overcarbonation, otherwise you'll have bottle bombs.

Wb06 is diastetic and it will ferment close to a fg of 1.0 but that takes time. If you bottled too early it could be problematic.

The FG was recorded to be 1.0065~1.007.

Although I didn't quite mention it, but I am concerned that leaving some of the residue water from rinsing the day before might have resulted in bacteria growing inside the bottle. Of which, perhaps the Starsan might not be strong enough to sanitise the bottle the next day.

I also carbonated with 2 tabs of corn sugar per bottle.

That said, I do hope that I was wrong and you're right.

 

[Miraculix]

The FG was recorded to be 1.0065~1.007.

Although I didn't quite mention it, but I am concerned that leaving some of the residue water from rinsing the day before might have resulted in bacteria growing inside the bottle. Of which, perhaps the Starsan might not be strong enough to sanitise the bottle the next day.

I also carbonated with 2 tabs of corn sugar per bottle.

That said, I do hope that I was wrong and you're right.

That could be the real fg, could also be still dropping. How long was it in the fermenter?

Bacteria is very unlikely, unless there was some dirt still attached to the bottle when using Star San. If you used star San straight before bottling and the bottles were really clean before (except for the water), then bacterias wouldn't have had much of a chance.

 

[Yjie91]

That could be the real fg, could also be still dropping. How long was it in the fermenter?

Bacteria is very unlikely, unless there was some dirt still attached to the bottle when using Star San. If you used star San straight before bottling and the bottles were really clean before (except for the water), then bacterias wouldn't have had much of a chance.

It was in the fermenter for about 2 weeks. FG was stable over 3 days.
The PET bottles are usually rinsed with tap water after use, and drained after a few days to remove any odour. They are then air dried uncapped in the room until it is to be used for bottling again. The water used for rinsing was tap water, which is potable and clean.

I actually have never encountered this issue before and this is frankly my first time seeing this.

 

[Miraculix]

It was in the fermenter for about 2 weeks. FG was stable over 3 days.
The PET bottles are usually rinsed and will with tap water after use, and drained after a few days to remove any odour. They are then air dried uncapped in the room until it is to be used for bottling again. The water used for rinsing was tap water, which is potable and clean.

I actually have never encountered this issue before and this is frankly my first time seeing this.

For diastetic yeasts, the three day rule does not really apply. Better would be a one or even two week period between two measurements. The last bit drops really slowly, but it drops.

You're always just giving half the information

So when did you use star San exactly?

 

[Yjie91]

For diastetic yeasts, the three day rule does not really apply. Better would be a one or even two week period between two measurements. The last bit drops really slowly, but it drops.

You're always just giving half the information

So when did you use star San exactly?

Sorry for the lack of information. I don't want to overload with writing on everything I did and try to focus on the areas that I think are the main issues.

I use Starsan before bottling, and I leave it in the bottles for about 5 minutes before pouring it out and proceeding with bottling procedure. I do not rinse the Starsan out.

Please do let me know if there's any information that I've left out, and so sorry about that!

 

[Miraculix]

Sorry for the lack of information. I don't want to overload with writing on everything I did and try to focus on the areas that I think are the main issues.

I use Starsan before bottling, and I leave it in the bottles for about 5 minutes before pouring it out and proceeding with bottling procedure. I do not rinse the Starsan out.

Please do let me know if there's any information that I've left out, and so sorry about that!

Nope, everything seems to be fine. If there is a contamination, it very likely has a different source than the bottle rinsing one day prior filling.

It's pet, they can withstand much more pressure than glass so you are a bit more on the safe side regarding bottle bombs. Just check how the carbonation is going and wait it out.

I think it is really just yeast in the bottles.

 

[Yjie91]

Nope, everything seems to be fine. If there is a contamination, it very likely has a different source than the bottle rinsing one day prior filling.

It's pet, they can withstand much more pressure than glass so you are a bit more on the safe side regarding bottle bombs. Just check how the carbonation is going and wait it out.

I think it is really just yeast in the bottles.

Thanks a lot, I hope you're right, and I was just being unnecessarily anxious all along!

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks a lot, I hope you're right, and I was just being unnecessarily anxious all along!

I wouldn't call it unnecessary, at least you got to know that diastatic strains have to be handled a bit differently than usual.

 

[Yjie91]

I wouldn't call it unnecessary, at least you got to know that diastatic strains have to be handled a bit differently than usual.

Yep, that was a first for me. I also found out that WB-06 isn't really a hefe strain, but more of a belgian(?) strain. I consider myself to be new to the craft, and I am learning everyday. But that also comes with its fair share of failures and anxiety.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep, that was a first for me. I also found out that WB-06 isn't really a hefe strain, but more of a belgian(?) strain. I consider myself to be new to the craft, and I am learning everyday. But that also comes with its fair share of failures and anxiety.

Yeah, what you got there is now probably more of a Witt beer then a Hefeweizen, but doesn't mean that it cannot be tasty in its own way.

 

[Yjie91]

Yeah, what you got there is now probably more of a Witt beer then a Hefeweizen, but doesn't mean that it cannot be tasty in its own way.

Oof, that sounds nice though, a half-breed wit!

 

[kevin58]

Regarding StarSan; you only need to wet the surfaces for it to work. No need to let it sit for 5 minutes. I would turn them upside down and let them drain and air dry for a while filling right away.

 

[Yjie91]

Oof, that sounds nice though, a half-breed wit!

Regarding StarSan; you only need to wet the surfaces for it to work. No need to let it sit for 5 minutes. I would turn them upside down and let them drain and air dry for a while filling right away.

So I popped open a bottle yesterday night, and poured into a hefe glass. The head wouldn't go past 1cm in height, and the colour is quite dark, which I attribute to the fact that I brewed this from a canned LME.

The problem comes in the tasting. While it is carbonated well, with small beads of carbonation, the taste is as follows:
1) Taste of bread(?) in the beginning (this is good)
2) Tart taste on both sides at the back of the tongue
3) No banana/clove aromas detected when smelling and tasting the beer
4) Mouthfeel is somewhat watery
5) Overall the beer is quite plain, in both mouthfeel and flavour

Have I caught the beer in the midst of infection? For what it's worth, I am now chilling the beer down to 3-5 deg.C.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Everything you describe is pretty normal for a malt extract wheat ale with that yeast. Not a contamination.

 

[davidabcd]

So you have five days in the bottle? If it tastes like beer at this point and that it is in the process of carbonating is a win.
Getting proper aromas and flavors from the yeast takes practice, knowledge and maybe equipment.
I would suggest a good kit that doesn't need added ingredients such as Northern Brewer or Brewer's Best.
The tart taste might be due to the LME.

 

[jschein]

Regarding StarSan; you only need to wet the surfaces for it to work. No need to let it sit for 5 minutes. I would turn them upside down and let them drain and air dry for a while filling right away.

Star San should not dry, bottles should be filled wet

 

[Miraculix]

Everything you describe is pretty normal for a malt extract wheat ale with that yeast. Not a contamination.

This!

Patience my friend!

(Says the guy that drank a 3 days bottled pale ale yesterday because he was so curious how the Nottingham did it's job)

 

[Yjie91]

So you have five days in the bottle? If it tastes like beer at this point and that it is in the process of carbonating is a win.
Getting proper aromas and flavors from the yeast takes practice, knowledge and maybe equipment.
I would suggest a good kit that doesn't need added ingredients such as Northern Brewer or Brewer's Best.
The tart taste might be due to the LME.

I only allowed 5 days of carbonation because of the fear of infection. It having the ring of gunk and all. Given what you said, is the mouthfeel, flavour and aroma fixed, or will it improve in time? Also, I never know LME could cause tart flavours.

 

[Yjie91]

Star San should not dry, bottles should be filled wet

The bottles were filled with Starsan still wet inside the bottle.

My initial concern was that the bottles were rinsed with potable tap water the day before, drained and capped.

It was only on the next day that the bottles were uncapped, tipped over to discard residual water and sprayed with Starsan on the inside, cap thread and cap itself. Beer was filled 5 minutes after the sanitisation procedure.

 

[Miraculix]

I only allowed 5 days of carbonation because of the fear of infection. It having the ring of gunk and all. Given what you said, is the mouthfeel, flavour and aroma fixed, or will it improve in time? Also, I never know LME could cause tart flavours.

I also never heard of that, but I also never used lme myself.

What I heard of and experienced myself is that saison yeasts can give some tartness and as this is a saison yeast here....

 

[Yjie91]

Everything you describe is pretty normal for a malt extract wheat ale with that yeast. Not a contamination.

In that case, is the flavour, aroma and mouthfeel fixed, or will it improve in time?

 

[Yjie91]

I also never heard of that, but I also never used lme myself.

What I heard of and experienced it myself is that saison yeasts can give some tartness and as this is a saison yeast here....

I thought WB-06 is more of a Belgian strain, and the closest commercial equivalent is Duvel. I might be wrong though

 

[Miraculix]

I thought WB-06 is more of a Belgian strain, and the closest commercial equivalent is Duvel. I might be wrong though

Don't ask me, I throw diastetic Belgian and diastetic saison into the same bucket...

 

[bucketnative]

In that case, is the flavour, aroma and mouthfeel fixed, or will it improve in time?

Beer, be it in the bottle or the keg, is a dynamic system. It will change over time, particularly in the first few weeks. You will often hear about people saying that beer tastes, "green," meaning young. Within a couple of weeks (or possibly days) in the package (bottle or keg) it will change... typically for the better, but that depends on a lot of factors.

Oxidization can occur, which is generally bad, but that depends on how much oxygen you introduced during your packaging process.

I generally take tasting notes about new recipes over the bottle lifetime. I notice that there might be a "grassy/green apple" flavor to start, but by week two, that's gone. It all depends on the recipe and process.

 

[davidabcd]

I only allowed 5 days of carbonation because of the fear of infection. It having the ring of gunk and all. Given what you said, is the mouthfeel, flavour and aroma fixed, or will it improve in time? Also, I never know LME could cause tart flavours.

As was said earlier, the ring is more than likely a baby krausen but I understand your caution.
The aroma and flavor will probably improve up to a point in time but I don't believe the mouthfeel will change.

If the LME isn't really fresh, I guess the tartness or twang can happen. I may have noticed it one time in a beer or I thought I tasted it because I had been reading about it. Who knows. For all I know, it could be wild yeast that did it. I wouldn't speculate too much though.
Adding the LME very near or at 0 minutes is one solution to the tartness, if that's what it was actually from. Going DME only is another.

 

[kh54s10]

I too think the ring in the neck is just from the mini fermentation to get carbonation.

In 5 days you are only about 1/5 the time usually allotted for bottle conditioning. I have never tried one that early. But I have tasted the beer on some before bottling and though "this one is not going to be so good" but after three weeks bottle conditioning those were quite good and very different from before conditioning.

The fact that the bottles had water in them until poured out and sprayed with Starsan should be of no bearing unless you used pond water. Municipal water is treated and unlikely to harbor nasties.

I haven't used LME in many years. If it wasn't very fresh it could easily contribute to the tartness described. "Extract Twang"..

When I do extracts now I steep specialty grains for the color and flavor and use light DME for the bulk of the fermentables. I get nearly the same results with this as I do when brewing all grain.

Give the bottles another couple of weeks before deciding on whether the flavor/aroma is bad or not. It is likely to change quite a bit.

 

[kevin58]

Star San should not dry, bottles should be filled wet

Well I said air dry a while not dry out but regardless that's not true. It won't hurt to let it dry completely as long as you're not letting what you are sanitizing sit out for any length of time.

 

[RPh_Guy]

In that case, is the flavour, aroma and mouthfeel fixed, or will it improve in time?

I'm inclined to say no, but anything is possible. Just wait and see.

• I suspect the tartness is coming from the yeast. It's characteristic of a lot of hefeweizen strains.
• I suspect the thin mouthfeel is from both the high attenuation and uncontrolled water profile.
• I suspect the lack of yeast character is from the particular yeast strain you selected; it's very neutral in general. Next time try a liquid hefeweizen yeast and controlling the pitch rate and temperature to get the profile you want. This might take a few tries to get right.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Wb06 is diastetic and it will ferment close to a fg of 1.0 but that takes time. If you bottled too early it could be problematic.

Just some FYI...

Saccharomyces cerevisiae var diastaticus is a designation for yeast that contain the gene for breaking down and fermenting dextrins.

Not all diastaticus strains even express the gene; many have normal attenuation.
Also, very few of the strains that do express the diastaticus gene will ferment beer down to 1.000.

In other words, experience with Belle Saison (or any other particular diastaticus strain) doesn't apply to every other diastaticus strain. Yeast strain characteristics are diverse.

 

[Miraculix]

Just some FYI...

Saccharomyces cerevisiae var diastaticus is a designation for yeast that contain the gene for breaking down and fermenting dextrins.

Not all diastaticus strains even express the gene; many have normal attenuation.
Also, very few of the strains that do express the diastaticus gene will ferment beer down to 1.000.

In other words, experience with Belle Saison (or any other particular diastaticus strain) doesn't apply to every other diastaticus strain. Yeast strain characteristics are diverse.

That is correct, that's why I said close to 1.0 and not 1.0. So far, i have read that most people get to around 1.06 with this strain? Don't know from my own experience, but this sounds diastetic to me.

I'm inclined to say no, but anything is possible. Just wait and see.

• I suspect the tartness is coming from the yeast. It's characteristic of a lot of hefeweizen strains.
• I suspect the thin mouthfeel is from both the high attenuation and uncontrolled water profile.
• I suspect the lack of yeast character is from the particular yeast strain you selected; it's very neutral in general. Next time try a liquid hefeweizen yeast and controlling the pitch rate and temperature to get the profile you want. This might take a few tries to get right.

I never had a Hefeweizen that was tart. I think you might be mixing up belgian strains and German strains here. But as this yeast is more of something belgian here, you are correct with saying that the tartnes most likely comes from the yeast.

 

[RPh_Guy]

That is correct, that's why I said close to 1.0 and not 1.0. So far, i have read that most people get to around 1.06 with this strain? Don't know from my own experience, but this sounds diastetic to me.

This strain definitely is diastaticus, and does have higher than average attenuation.
However, there's a big difference between 1.000 and 1.006, since those 6 gravity points are the different between normal carbonation and exploding bottles. Just saying precision is important.

I never had a Hefeweizen that was tart. I think you might be mixing up belgian strains and German strains here. But as this yeast is more of something belgian here, you are correct with saying that the tartnes most likely comes from the yeast.

Most "hefeweizens" made in the US are lightly tart to my palate. It could be just me ... I'm a supertaster. I definitely don't like tartness in this style.

I agree with the rest of what you're saying. WB-06 isn't the best choice if you're expecting a hefeweizen.
Belgian strains can make banana and clove, but not the same overall character as the classic Weihenstephaner weissbier strain, so probably you're right and this is more geared toward making Belgian style wheat beers. The description from Fermentis is pretty ambiguous unfortunately, confusing new brewers, or brewers new to this strain at least (myself included).

 

[Miraculix]

This strain definitely is diastaticus, and does have higher than average attenuation.
However, there's a big difference between 1.000 and 1.006, since those 6 gravity points are the different between normal carbonation and exploding bottles. Just saying precision is important.

Most "hefeweizens" made in the US are lightly tart to my palate. It could be just me ... I'm a supertaster. I definitely don't like tartness in this style.

I agree with the rest of what you're saying. WB-06 isn't the best choice if you're expecting a hefeweizen.
Belgian strains can make banana and clove, but not the same overall character as the classic Weihenstephaner weissbier strain, so probably you're right and this is more geared toward making Belgian style wheat beers. The description from Fermentis is pretty ambiguous unfortunately, confusing new brewers, or new to this strain at least (myself included).

I think I never had an American Weizen. Maybe they are just doing it wrong, in Germany most of the wheat beers are actually on the sweeter side of beers (could be also because of the lower hopping rates) but all my life I never had a Hefeweizen that was somehow tasting tart to me... And I had quite a few

Of course not talking about Berliner Weisse or Goose.