RIMS-March Pump- and Priming

[TimWeber]

I know there are a few other threads on this but I am starting another one.

Last night I used my new RIMS based on sawdustguy's RIMS for dummies.

I am using a blichmann MT with a false bottom, my RIMS tube is 1.5", and I am using 1/2" tubing everywhere. I have the march pump below the mash tun with a ball valve on the outlet to control flow. The outlet of the RIMS is connected to the blichmann autosparge which is in the open position and the tube is floating.

I was cycling the strike water though the system for at least 30 minutes no problem. When I mashed in I started to have problems. The flow was set to low. I tried stirring the grain, and not stirring the grain but the pump would just stop pumping either way. There didn't seem to be a stuck mash though.

I would turn the pump off to try and reprime it then turn it back on. It would pump for a couple of seconds and then flow would stop again.

I tried turning the HEX on it's side and on a 30 degree angle, and raising and lowing the mash tun. At a 30 degree angle it seemed to work the best, but it was still studdering quite a bit. Here is a picture of my prototype, this was pretty much how it was set up last night.

Does any one have suggestions on how to make this work better. It there a technique to priming, or an orientation that would work better?

 

[weirdboy]

That doesn't sound like a priming problem if it was pumping to begin with and then stopped. Is your MLT outlet getting clogged or something? Or maybe you need to throttle down the outlet of the pump?

 

[The Pol]

Did you introduce a bunch of air when you poured the grain in? When you mash in, you are tossing a bunch of air in there too in the grist. I can see you losing a prime, but it should rectify itself at a certain point. The pumps are able to pump with some air in the head, once they evacuate that air, they will pump much more efficiently.

I am interested in this as I am building a RIMS that is powerd by LG pumps and have wondered the same thing.

 

[weirdboy]

Did you introduce a bunch of air when you poured the grain in? When you mash in, you are tossing a bunch of air in there too in the grist.

If you stir your mash well after doughing in, there shouldn't be any big pockets of air.

 

[The Pol]

If you stir your mash well after doughing in, there shouldn't be any big pockets of air.

If you dont turn off the pump when you mash in... then it would be easy to ingest some air. He never said that he turned it off.

 

[weirdboy]

If you dont turn off the pump when you mash in... then...

Ah, yeah I see your point.

 

[TimWeber]

I let the pump run as I was mashing in. I slowly poured in the malt, while my wife stirred. Perhaps air did get in there? I wasn't able to get the pump flowing well until the last 15 minutes of the boil. And I tried a bunch of different configurations.

I didn't stir the mash continually, since I wanted to see if the bed was compacting. It didn't feel compacted, actually felt like a good density.

Only other thing I can think of was my water/grist was .5 gallons/pound. or 2 quarts per pound or 2 liters per pound. A pretty thin mash, maybe all that water height compacted the bed?? Even though it didn't feel compacted?

I wouldn't let my problem dissuade you. I know this method works based on how many people have successful RIMS and Brutus type rigs. I know I must be doing something wrong.

I am going to re-plumb my prototype, and try to get some more straight runs of tubing as well as shortening the tubing. There were some slight bends in the set up that may have contributed.

Regardless I hit my gravity within 2 points. So far I am digging the new blichmann false bottom.

 

[KingKegII]

I too will be building a RIMS soon, just waiting to see how the tri-clover RIMS thread works out for SawDustGuy, so I'm interested in this issue as well.

To the OP, the link to the picture you posted is broken, but I was wondering: is your RIMS tube above or below the pump?

To everyone, would this make a difference?

What I've found w/ my system is that all the fittings & connections need to be really tight, or they can slowly suck air in and cause you to lose prime. Definitely a PITA. But per your description I wonder if the problem is really a clogged MLT or compacted grain bed. I wonder if dialing back your recirc rate would help??

 

[The Pol]

I have my pump BEFORE the RIMS tube... this comes from my past experience with mag drive pumps and the desire to NOT have a bunch of possible restrictions and crevices BEFORE the pump.

I also do not want my RIMS tube to gravity drain to the pump... if there is a stuck mash, I dont want the RIMS tube gravity EMPTYING itself... that may not be cool.

I am using a different pump, the LG 3-MD-HC, which I have HEARD is a better priming pump, it also has twice the flow rate of the March for less cost.

Again, from experience, if you were recirculating too fast and compacting the grain bed, you will know it, as your grain bed will become a solid mass before your flow stops completely. I have intimate knowlege of this from my HERMS days.

That also being said... I have the Blichman button falsie now too, and it is SUPPOSED to be much less prone to clogging due to the hybrid manifold/falsie design.

People build them differently, and they work... I decided to place my RIMS tube AFTER my pump with the inlet and outlet facing UP so that if the wort stops, the tube remains full.

 

[TimWeber]

Interesting. I will try it with the RIMS below the pump next time. I was scrambling around last night and the following picture is what finally worked. I am going to build a metal structure but decided to start off with the wooden until I found the correct configuration. Here is my mess so far. I think my first problem is that I have way too much tubing.

 

[Sawdustguy]

If you are using the tube as a RIMS in the traditional sense, you should dough in, stir and give the grain bed a few moments to settle before recirculating as the grain bed acts like a filter in conjunction with the false bottom so you don't circulate a bunch of grain through the RIMS tube. I also have the pump after the RIMS tube. I never worry about a stuck mash because I use my PID's alarm relay to disable the signal from the PID output to the SSR when it goes over a set temperature. My RIMS tube actually sits a little higher than the March pump I use for recirculation. My RIMS works just fine. Hang in there, you will get it to work just fine.

 

[TimWeber]

Excellent advice. I will try that next week. That actually makes a lot of sense because it was running water just fine before hand. Thank you for all of your really super helpful input sawdustguy! I couldn't do it without you!

 

[samc]

+1 I don't recirculate until all the grain is in and stirred. This last brewday my RIMS & BCS set up held temps perfectly and everything flowed great. Most successful use of the system to date.