RIMS Brewers Please sound off...Mill Settings

[jmoore77]

I would like to hear everyones mill gap settings and total brewhouse efficiencies. I am brewing on an all electric system using a 1500w RIMS tube. 5500w 20gal HLT, 20gal MT, 5500w 30gal BK and my question is what have you found to be the optimal crush gap for you mill. I just switched from a 2 roller to a MM3 3 roller and I'm trying to decide on a gap. Monster says .040 and I've read for RIMS go to .045-.060. to allow for better flow through the grain bed. What have you guys come up with?

I hope I posted this in the correct place if not please move it.

Thanks

 

[pizza_man]

I have a Crankandstein 2S mill and it is set where I bought it because it works great. Per their web site it's preset at 0.045".

I bought their mill and base & hopper set years ago and I run it with an electric drill. One thing I have learned is the speed I mill at makes a difference. I run the drill slow and the grain comes out very consistent.

http://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=12

http://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=3

 

[jmoore77]

Are you doing a recirculating mash? Yeah I also run my drill very slow like around 2 revolutions per second.


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[jleiii]

I'm very interested in what others are seeing, too.
I have very recently started using a RIMS system, and got terrible efficiency the first few brews. I don't know what my mill setting is off hand, but it's a Millars Mill and set at 1.5 on scale of 4, with 1 being as close as it gets. It's running around 150rpm, and I get large hull pcs.
I held a big brew day recently and one of the other brewers, whom is in the process of opening a micro brewery, looked at my crush and said it looked good.
I use a ~300 mesh screen in a solid sided basket, and have to stir up the mash several times in the first 10 min to get it to not compact badly. I'm guessing the problem is that the grain swells at the start and gets too tight. Once I stir a few times it's good to go for the rest of the hour mash. That last brew came in around 75% mash efficiency. I'm hoping I can dial it in better as I use it more.

 

[jmoore77]

A friend of mine has the exact same system as me and he typically does 15 gal batches and hits 78% consistently but we have notice when scaling down to 10 or 5 gallons on these large systems that the eff drops to around 70 for 10 gal and 62 for 5 gal. The only diff in our systems were the mills which isn't the case anymore since we both have a MM3 unfortunately he can't remember his crush gap.


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[pizza_man]

Are you doing a recirculating mash? Yeah I also run my drill very slow like around 2 revolutions per second.


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No I don't I mash in a GOTT cooler, maybe next year...

 

[stevehaun]

My system is a 30 gallon HERMS. My mill is set at 0.050"
I run my pump very slow during the first 5 min of the mash to prevent compaction. Grain bed depth is another variable you can play with to maximize flow thru your system.

 

[jmoore77]

Awesome what kind of eff are you getting at .50? I'm actually set right now to .051 but I haven't tried brewing it yet. I just cut the .045-.060 in half.


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[Bill_in_VA]

I'm still setting up for RIMS... Have all the stuff but not in a working system yet. Part of it was getting a mill and dialing it in (MM2-2.0). I started at .032 and that was too tight for my MLT, stuck a few times but had mash efficiencies in the 90% range. So I backed off to .036 and am much happier, I get 80% efficiency and can drain my MLT with valve wide open if I wish and haven't stuck yet. I feel confident it will work well once my RIMS is all together. I'm using an old igloo 54qt rectangular cooler with a copper manifold in the bottom. My LHBS was giving me a 72% efficiency, I think that's so it works without sticking on lots of peoples systems, I don't know their gap but if 72% works almost universally then a little better doesn't hurt unless you really need it course for some reason, that was my thinking anyway.

 

[stevehaun]

My mash efficiency is 82-86%. Total brewhouse efficiency has too many other variables to allow for comparison regarding the effect of crush.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

JSP Maltmill, Brew-Magic, 80% brewhouse avg., I set my mill to "On".

 

[jmoore77]

My volume and loss numbers are dead on usually no more than 4 extra cups left in MT after reaching pre boil vol. So I'm really hoping the right crush gets me in the high 70's total brewhouse eff.


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[atoughram]

Great thread! I believe mine is setup at 0.037" gap and my last all barley brew measured 74% eff.

 

[jammin]

jmoore - don't worry too much about the actual gap measurement.

get you're feeler gauge out to get yourself in the ballpark - .040 or so. make a little tick mark indicating your starting point on the adjustment knob.


start running a good handful of grain through at a time and slightly tighten the knob until you get the best balance of crush and husk integrity.

once you start getting scared - stop and use that to brew your next batch. if you're flowing like a boss, tighten it down a hair before your next session and vice versa.


there is no magic number we can give you that will be perfect for YOUR system. do yourself a favor and and accept that you will be 2 or 3 batches before your mill is perfect and you know what efficiency to expect when building recipes.

 

[jleiii]

I read a while back that you may need to adjust for certain grains that are smaller. Any real world experience here?

I like jammin's comment that the number is not as important as the crush. Can't argue with that, and I suspect that each mill mfg may have a different knurl size and depth which would back this up.

 

[kal]

I do HERMS (not RIMS) but for what you're interested in it's the same thing. You just want to know what anyone who uses a recirculating setup and what their mill setting is. I also fly sparge (as do most who use recirculating setups).

I set my mill gap to 0.047". With recirculating setups you need to mill looser for higher efficiency, not tighter. Tighter impedes flow. This is the opposite of what you want to do with a batch sparged/non recirc setups.

I get up to 95% mash efficiency.

Total brewhouse efficiency has too many other variables to allow for comparison regarding the effect of crush.

+1.

Not sure why you ask about brewhouse efficiency as that includes kettle losses and other things that have nothing do with RIMS/HERMS or likewise.

Kal

 

[kal]

I read a while back that you may need to adjust for certain grains that are smaller. Any real world experience here?

I don't bother. That would be a real pain.

I do at times completely pulverize very dark/roasted/toasted grains when making something like a Dry Irish Stout. But I use a coffee grinder for this.

My latest brewery addition:

To get the best colour and flavour I use a good quality burr (not blade) coffee grinder to get an extremely fine grind, almost like dust.

I then add the grind to the mash at the end of the mash rest. This avoids lowering the mash pH too far and reduces the chance of astringency which can occur from over-steeping highly roasted grains.

Once the mash is over, I stop the mash pump, add the roasted barley, and give it a good stir to mix it into the existing grain bed. I stir well as otherwise the fine layer of powdery roasted barley on top may stop the flow. I then start the mash pump again and continue with my mashout. The wort will be cloudy again because I just wrecked the 60-90 mins of continuous vorlaufing but it clears as the grain bed rises to mashout temperature over 20-30 minutes.

Kal

 

[jmoore77]

My mash eff has been in the 80's and I feel since my BH volumes are dialed in perfectly and my consistent low pre boil gravities leads me to believe it's a mill setting which in turn will effect the overall BH eff. Like I said we have discovered lower batch volumes like 5 and 10 in my 20gal Blich MT will result in a much lower eff when compared to 15-20 batches.

Thanks so much for the responses...I'm feeling better about trying .051 on Sunday. I'll post my results when I'm done.


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[jmoore77]

Hey Kal just curious if your getting 95% mash efficiency what total efficiency do you design recipes at? Love your website by the way I used a lot of your tips when building my brew system!


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[kal]

Hey Kal just curious if your getting 95% mash efficiency what total efficiency do you design recipes at?

The only efficiency I care about when creating recipes is mash efficiency which I set to 95% in Beer Tools Pro. If it's a really high gravity beer like a RIS or Barleywine I'll use 88% (With really high gravity beers efficiency drops because you're using less sparge water than usual to rinse more grain than usual and end up leaving more sugars behind. This is true of any brewing setup.)

I always make 11 to 12 gallons of wort (post boil) to account for the various losses that occur from chilling/fermentation sediment, racking/kettle/hose deadspace, dry hopping, etc. This way I always get two completely full kegs packaged (10 gallons). If it's a lower ABV beer that doesn't have any dry hops I'll usually target making around ~11 to 11.5 gallons of wort. A high ABV double or triple IPA that may be dry hopped 3-4 times would be more like 12 gallons because you'll lose so much to hops.

Last thing I want is 5 gallon kegs that are only 80% full after all that work.

So I have no idea what my total efficiency or brewhouse efficiency is. I don't care really. I don't care about mash efficiency either for that matter - I have no interest in fighting to get higher numbers. My only concern is consistent efficiency. When I plan for a 4.2% beer I want to be exactly 4.2%.

Consistent efficiency comes from consistent process. As it turns out, if you have a well planned/thought out process that is consistent, you'll likely always maximize mash efficiency as well.

Kal

 

[jmoore77]

Couldn't agree more I'm not really striving for higher numbers I just want them to be consistent which I am for the most part (usually just off .002-.005 or so on OG). The biggest road block we have had on 2 identical brew systems with identical processes one will get 80% and one will get 70's. We both use beersmith which is also setup identically. The only diff being one usually brews 15 gal and the other 10 and the only other thing was the mills being different which they aren't now. Since we share recipes we are trying to get both system doing the same thing so the beers stay consistent regardless of where they are brewed.

Thanks Again...Very Helpful!


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[jmoore77]

I also don't thing beersmith lets you design around mash eff just total eff. It will show the est mash eff and the actual mash eff calculated based on boil vol and OG.


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[jleiii]

I checked my mill and I'm at .035. With Kal's comments it looks like I need to open it up, although I hit my numbers closest on the last batch. Good info here!

 

[jmoore77]

Ok so Brewday went great! Mill set to .051 brewed a 10 gallon batch with recipe designed at 75% total efficiency on beersmith. Nailed all my volumes, pre boil gravity, and OG. When I step up to a 15 gal batch in this 20 gal MT I should be able to scale up to 78% total eff.


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[jeffmeh]

I don't bother. That would be a real pain.

I do at times completely pulverize very dark/roasted/toasted grains when making something like a Dry Irish Stout. But I use a coffee grinder for this.

My latest brewery addition:

To get the best colour and flavour I use a good quality burr (not blade) coffee grinder to get an extremely fine grind, almost like dust.

I then add the grind to the mash at the end of the mash rest. This avoids lowering the mash pH too far and reduces the chance of astringency which can occur from over-steeping highly roasted grains.

Once the mash is over, I stop the mash pump, add the roasted barley, and give it a good stir to mix it into the existing grain bed. I stir well as otherwise the fine layer of powdery roasted barley on top may stop the flow. I then start the mash pump again and continue with my mashout. The wort will be cloudy again because I just wrecked the 60-90 mins of continuous vorlaufing but it clears as the grain bed rises to mashout temperature over 20-30 minutes.

Kal

Interesting, but I don't like my coffee malty.

 

[jleiii]

I opened up my mill to .050 and my rye was barely touched. Backed it off to about .045, and it was much better, but I still found way too many whole rye grains after mashing. My speculation that you may need to adjust for smaller grains was justified, in spite of kal's "I don't bother" response.
Hoping my Pumpkin Rye Ale has enough Rye flavor.

I don't know yet if the efficiency was any different, as the sugar yield from Pumpkin is difficult to predict, and my OG was low. I added a pound of clear Belgian sugar and then the OG was spot on. I'll be watching closely with future batches.

 

[cuda6pak]

Still trying to find the sweet spot myself. Had 0.050 on my last brew with great recirculation but still did not end up at the efficiency I was hoping for. Looking back I did only recirculate for maybe 50min of a 60min mash, however.

 

[JonW]

Still trying to find the sweet spot myself. Had 0.050 on my last brew with great recirculation but still did not end up at the efficiency I was hoping for. Looking back I did only recirculate for maybe 50min of a 60min mash, however.

That 10 minutes isn't going to make a difference. Your false bottom, flow rate and channeling can play issues her also. I use a MM 3 roller mill and do not measure the gap. I tighten it down until it is binding, then back off just a hair. I pulverize my grain as much as possible. I'm currently using a Blichmann false bottom and normally have no issues with stuck sparges. If I'm using a lot of wheat, MO or other sticky grain, I'll toss in some rice hulls. I run 80-84% efficiency unless I'm doing a DIPA, then it drops to about 78%.

 

[blizz81]

Have our BC down to 0.028" . Would not do it that tight if I wasn't conditioning the grain. In a keggle with a tier 1 jaybird false bottom, we had a few (even bigger) brews go fine re: flow rate, and a couple either show a little bit of a struggle (not really due to wheat or rye or anything obvious), or pretty much stick altogether. Rice hulls in all those batches. Have gone to using a BIAB bag + the false bottom with no rice hulls, no further issues so far.

Have been getting around 80% brewhouse eff consistently.

 

[paulegli]

My Barley Crusher is set to 0.36". I've tried tighter mill gaps but have run into stuck recirculations when I go below 0.30" or so. I mash in a round cooler with a basic stainless steel false bottom and recirculate with a Steelhead pump through a BrewHardware.com RIMS tube. I run the pump the entire time I'm mashing. Efficiency for this system has been between 75% to 85%, and the wort that comes out looks fantastic:

(that's from a 100% pils grain bill for a Belgian Golden Strong I brewed last weekend)

 

[schematix]

I've used the stock barley crusher setting as long as I've had it. Never had lower than 85% efficiency (10G gott with false bottom). These days i'm getting 92-93% in my 15G boiler maker with blichmann louver false bottom and RIMS rocket. It takes a little fiddling with the pump flow valve but it works great when the flow rate is just right (about 2 qt/min for me).

 

[jleiii]

My Barley Crusher is set to 0.36". I've tried tighter mill gaps but have run into stuck recirculations when I go below 0.30" or so. I mash in a round cooler with a basic stainless steel false bottom and recirculate with a Steelhead pump through a BrewHardware.com RIMS tube. I run the pump the entire time I'm mashing. Efficiency for this system has been between 75% to 85%, and the wort that comes out looks fantastic:

(that's from a 100% pils grain bill for a Belgian Golden Strong I brewed last weekend)

That's pretty much exactly what I've got, but a Chugger pump. I got 75% on the last 2 brews, but still trying to dial things in. The mill is .045, and I'll try .040 for a couple brews and see how it goes.

 

[cuda6pak]

To bump an old thread - What mills are you guys using specifically for your RIMS/HERMS setups?

I've been using a plain cereal killer with the 1.25" rollers and am deciding on either the MM2-Pro with the 2.0" rollers or a MM3-Pro w/2" rollers. I think either one will be a good upgrade and not shred the husks as much - but is the 3 roller mill worth it in the long run for keeping husks intact better for faster recirculating flow or will a MM2-Pro accomplish basically the same thing?

 

[blizz81]

To bump an old thread - What mills are you guys using specifically for your RIMS/HERMS setups?

I've been using a plain cereal killer with the 1.25" rollers and am deciding on either the MM2-Pro with the 2.0" rollers or a MM3-Pro w/2" rollers. I think either one will be a good upgrade and not shred the husks as much - but is the 3 roller mill worth it in the long run for keeping husks intact better for faster recirculating flow or will a MM2-Pro accomplish basically the same thing?

I guess I can't speak for the 2-roller vs. 3-roller, but if you want your husks intact, just condition your grain first.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm very interested in what others are seeing, too.
I have very recently started using a RIMS system, and got terrible efficiency the first few brews. I don't know what my mill setting is off hand, but it's a Millars Mill and set at 1.5 on scale of 4, with 1 being as close as it gets. It's running around 150rpm, and I get large hull pcs.
I held a big brew day recently and one of the other brewers, whom is in the process of opening a micro brewery, looked at my crush and said it looked good.
I use a ~300 mesh screen in a solid sided basket, and have to stir up the mash several times in the first 10 min to get it to not compact badly. I'm guessing the problem is that the grain swells at the start and gets too tight. Once I stir a few times it's good to go for the rest of the hour mash. That last brew came in around 75% mash efficiency. I'm hoping I can dial it in better as I use it more.

The 300 micron screen is way too fine... thats what I use for my hop basket... I could see it compacting and plugging myself... I use a 3 stage false bottom... first a course bottom screen then a bazooka tube and a stainless mesh sleeve inside that... I've yet to have a stuck sparge.

whats your wattage on your rims element ? length of the element?
Edit I just saw this is a pretty old thread someone resurrected...

 

[jleiii]

The 300 micron screen is way too fine... thats what I use for my hop basket... I could see it compacting and plugging myself... I use a 3 stage false bottom... first a course bottom screen then a bazooka tube and a stainless mesh sleeve inside that... I've yet to have a stuck sparge.

whats your wattage on your rims element ? length of the element?
Edit I just saw this is a pretty old thread someone resurrected...

Yeah, pretty old. I've moved on to a 10 gallon cooler for the mash tun with a false bottom from brewhardware.com. The RIMS tube is also from there, the 18" one, but the element is a standard 4500 fold back with food grade silicon to seal the bare steel body. My control has a low/high switch for 120/240 so I can do rapid heatup, or maintain. Brewhardware.com has fantastic all SS elements now, made to order for them so they fit the RIMS and other things they sell.

I did have fair success with the mash basket, and I do use the same screen in my hop basket. It will filter the trub as well, but clogs all too fast.