Ridiculously longterm aging?

[neosapien]

So I'm looking at making something that I can age for 5-8 years. I did a bit of reading on madfermentationist last night and saw a few mentions of being able to age some beers 3-5 years before they start degrading.

I'd like to make a sour that I can just let sit and get funky for many many years. Does anybody out there have any experience aging a recipe for this long? If so, any recipe suggestions?

 

[evrose]

I immediately started thinking of the Mad Fermentationist, but it seems you already found him. IMO, there's no better source on the web for information on crazy brews like that than him. He has a recipe section, along with links to tasting notes - sometimes being stretched out over several years for a given batch.

 

[neosapien]

yeah, I'm still digging around on his site. I like a lot of his recipes, but I can't seem to find any (so far) with tasting notes past 3 years. I'm really looking for 5+ years on this batch (I won't be able to drink it for at least that long). Going to shoot him an email and seek out his advice as well. I may just try it anyways to see what happens.

 

[Chadwick]

I'm not sure that I can answer your question here. I know that some beer styles do well with long term aging. But long-term usually means 2-5 years. I'm curious to know more about this myself. My father brewed his own beer. I have one bottle of a lager he made which is now almost 30 years old. I keep it as a memento of our family tradition of brewing. I have no plans of opening it up and drinking it, but I am a little bit curious as to whether it would still be palatable or not.

 

[Hernando]

Just a thought, but I would maybe look into doing a clone on one of the Avery Brewery Demon series. They state those beers are cellerable for 10 years.

 

[neosapien]

Just a thought, but I would maybe look into doing a clone on one of the Avery Brewery Demon series. They state those beers are cellerable for 10 years.

Oooh, there's a good thought. Thanks. I've just never contemplated anything this long. Bulk aging? Bottle aging? Hmmm...

 

[broadbill]

I disagree with the idea that beer, any beer is only going to be good for a finite amount of time. I seem to remember Papazian writing about opening some beers he made 25-30 years ago and them holding up remarkably well. and those were probably "regular" (i.e. non-high gravity beer).

I have a RIS that I hope to keep bottles around for another 10-15 years.

 

[broadbill]

yeah, I'm still digging around on his site. I like a lot of his recipes, but I can't seem to find any (so far) with tasting notes past 3 years. I'm really looking for 5+ years on this batch (I won't be able to drink it for at least that long). Going to shoot him an email and seek out his advice as well. I may just try it anyways to see what happens.

He just may not have any that have aged for 3 years yet.

As I mentioned in my other post, I don't see a beer that holds up well at 3 years suddenly going to hell at 5 years. I would expect that proper storage is key.

 

[galttfwo]

As another option, you may want to try making a sack Mead. Above 15%, it should be really something amazing in 5-8 years.

 

[Hernando]

Oooh, there's a good thought. Thanks. I've just never contemplated anything this long. Bulk aging? Bottle aging? Hmmm...

Perhaps bulk age for two years or so (maybe on some oak). Then bottle condition for x amount of years you see fit. That way all bases are covered

I am curious to see what you end up doing and your process. With that being said, if you wouldn't mind keeping me posted, I would appreciate it.

 

[Hernando]

I disagree with the idea that beer, any beer is only going to be good for a finite amount of time. I seem to remember Papazian writing about opening some beers he made 25-30 years ago and them holding up remarkably well. and those were probably "regular" (i.e. non-high gravity beer).

I have a RIS that I hope to keep bottles around for another 10-15 years.

I agree with this as well. I know I have read some posts that were linked in "is this beer still good & will I die from drinking this" posts where people have had beer about 20-30 years old and they were drinkable, not the best tasting on some occassions but were drinkable.

As you said, the storing of said beer is going to be the key part of it.

I commend you guys on keeping beer around that long, that takes some patience.

 

[AgentHubcap]

are you headed off to jail or something?

 

[CBMbrewer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/mephistopheles-stout-41966/

If you've had the mephistopheles you know how intense of a beer it is. After some aging it gets even better.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

I'm really looking for 5+ years on this batch (I won't be able to drink it for at least that long).

So when are you reporting to the state penitentiary to start your sentence?

 

[snowveil]

I'd definitely bottle carbonate if you aren't planning on doing so already, and be extremely anal about oxygenation.

I sampled a 15 year old bottle of Duvel last year and it held up remarkably well. It got slightly sour and funky but nothing unpalatable. The classic Duvel yeast character was completely gone.

 

[stz]

I kept some coffee stout around for 4+ years. It went flat, but it was still an alcoholic beverage enjoyed by people, didn't even have to mention the relative age. I was about 8%+ though.

 

[amandabab]

I've only bottle aged beer (RIS) out to 2 years and mead out to 4 years.

It's not as long as you are talking but
the capping methods I've had the best luck with are :
#1 co2 purged bottles with regular crown caps
#2 tie between synthetic corks, you need a good metal jaw floor corker, not a portuguese, and plastic champagne corks with wires.
#3 waxed swing tops. The wax won't help the seal, but it will protect the exposed areas of the gasket. about 18month and the rubber gaskets start showing cracks/aging. You might not need to do this with the silicone gaskets but rubber replacements age fast.
#4 O2 absorbing crown caps even treating them right.

the worst was cheap corks.
most corks in small lots just aren't the best. solid #9 firstrun-ultrahigh quality-super double secret-hand delivered by woodnymphs-$4 a piece corks are just too expensive to test with since crown caps seem to work so good.

 

[neosapien]

So when are you reporting to the state penitentiary to start your sentence?

lol. I'd already be there if I was going. I don't think they let us po' folk report whenever we want...

 

[neosapien]

I think I've decided to make two batches to just sit and forget about. 5 gallons of the Mephistopheles stout mentioned above, and then 5 gallons of a modification of Petrus' Oud Bruin. Tentative recipe is as follows:

18# pilsner
1# caravienne
0.5# acid malt
0.25# chocolate malt
1# dark candi sugar

1.5oz Styrian goldings @60 minutes

shooting for an OG around 1.110 or so.

pitching either WY1762 or WY3522 first. Letting that go for a while to get a head start then pitching some Lacto and forgetting about it. When I do decide to rack to a secondary I'm pondering on throwing some Brett in there to scavenge for any oxygen that creeps in. Probably throw an ounce of oak chips in for a year. Then bottle and forget about it. I'll use a couple of the methods amandabab mentioned, corked bottles, wax-sealed swing bottles and just regular crown caps. Mike the Mad Fermentationist gave me the idea about brett to scavenge oxygen, and (also as mentioned above) storage temperature is going to be pretty vital. This length of time is going to be pushing the limits of either caps or corks. It's going to be practically impossible to stare at the boxes of bottles for years on end and just...wait, but we'll see how that goes.

I've never attempted making anything that I'm trying to age this long, but it seems like a fun experiment and test of patience. I'll post updates as I get closer to brewing and then aging this thing out.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

lol. I'd already be there if I was going. I don't think they let us po' folk report whenever we want...

Did you sign up with the French Foreign Legion or something? I'm curious - how are you planning to keep your hands off your brews for 5 years or more? Half the time I'm drinking my hooch before the ferment ends. What is your secret?

 

[neosapien]

I already have a backlog of, uhhhhh, lots of batches. I just want to see 1) what happens to a beer stored that long, and 2) if I can do it. MadFermentationist says he has had some gueuzes that are 10+ years old and they were spectacular. I'd like to achieve something like that some day.

The key to not drinking it is going to be not storing it anywhere near me! I'm hoping to split the bottled batches between my two parents' houses. At least, I hope that is going to work...

 

[Brewmex41]

What if they were bottled flat, popped open and dropped in a carbonation tab and recapped whenever you were almost ready to try them?

 

[neosapien]

Would that even work? I'm going to guess that whatever yeast is left by the time these beasts finish are going to be long gone. I've never used carbonation tabs before; always just priming sugar at bottling time. I'm at a total loss as to how to even begin bottling these things up. If your idea is viable I'll definitely keep it in mind when the time comes. That's the whole point of this thread. I'd really hate to make some sort of glaring error somewhere after making myself wait for so long.

 

[Brewmex41]

I have no idea if it would work, I was hoping someone else could come shoot me down lol.
My son is turning one year old in august so I want to try and age a brew until his 21st.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

I have no idea if it would work, I was hoping someone else could come shoot me down lol.
My son is turning one year old in august so I want to try and age a brew until his 21st.

Dude, you're planning to party with your son on his 21st!. Awesome! Show him how it is done man!

You should probably brew some easy quaffers - the 21 year old stuff will be nice for sentiment and all but the boys (and girls) will be trying to get hammered, ya dig? Also, you should probably have the "birds and the bees" chat with your son before your start to uncork the 21 year old stuff. If all goes well he'll be trying to ride rodeo with the nice young girl next door, repeatedly.

I am a fornicator and I approve of this message.

 

[Brewmex41]

Dude, you're planning to party with your son on his 21st!. Awesome! Show him how it is done man!

You should probably brew some easy quaffers - the 21 year old stuff will be nice for sentiment and all but the boys (and girls) will be trying to get hammered, ya dig? Also, you should probably have the "birds and the bees" chat with your son before your start to uncork the 21 year old stuff. If all goes well he'll be trying to ride rodeo with the nice young girl next door, repeatedly.

I am a fornicator and I approve this message.

When he's 21 I'll be 44, still young enough to kick it.
And there's no bmc allowed in my house lol.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

When he's 21 I'll be 44, still young enough to kick it. And there's no bmc allowed in my house lol.

You are doing it right sir. Your sons' 21st party will be epic and I hope to be invited. Please keep me on your mailing list. The birds and the bees talk is still a good idea, especially if the girl next door winds up being a cutie.

 

[Brewmex41]

You are doing it right sir. Your sons' 21st party will be epic and I hope to be invited. Please keep me on your mailing list. The birds and the bees talk is still a good idea, especially if the girl next door winds up being a cutie.

Look us up in 2 decades.

Not to get back on topic or anything... But I was thinkin about doing something high in ABV like a barleywine or rum/whisky barrel aged brew.

Do you guys think maybe a lager such as a Doppelbock would hold up to aging better?