Reverse hopstand?

[Aggie10]

For lack of better term I'm calling it a reverse hopstand.

What are effects on hop utilization and bitterness profile between:
1. Adding hops to water at boil (95 C at my altitude), immediate flameout, leaving hops in for 25 minutes during cooling (to 75 C), then remove hop bag.
2. Adding hops to 75 C water, warming for 25 minutes when at that time boil is achieved, immediate flameout, remove hop bag?

I'm perplexed on this one, but am trying to ascertain a method to combine steeping grains and hop additions either during the heating or cooling stages...to save significant time (to answer the inevitable questions out there).

And I suppose if "water" is changed to "wort", same question?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

1. Adding hops to water at boil (95 C at my altitude), immediate flameout, leaving hops in for 25 minutes during cooling (to 75 C), then remove hop bag.

To me, this looks like BBR's "Hop Sampler" process.

2. Adding hops to 75 C water, warming for 25 minutes when at that time boil is achieved, immediate flameout, remove hop bag?

67C = 167F; use wort instead of water; to me, this looks similar to First Wort Hopping.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

2. Adding hops to 75 C water, warming for 25 minutes when at that time boil is achieved, immediate flameout, remove hop bag?

Would you then boil for 60 mins, or would this be for a no-boil batch? I think if you continue to boil, then alpha acids from the hops would isomerize adding bitterness...but this is something I am a bit fuzzy about...whether alpha acids are dissolved into the wort or you need the hops present.

 

[Aggie10]

Re 2...No boil preferably, but I've read that FWH additions can substitute for hop stand additions but not so much for boil additions to achieve bitterness. So, maybe a 5-10 boil with a little bit of Magnum, for example, would get traditional bitterness up?

And why not heat water to 155-165F, add steeping grains AND hops, hold temperature for 20-30 minutes...from what I read in forums you shouldn't combine grains and hops during steeping, but isn't that kinda like FWH...as Brewin noted above?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Been trying to find an even shorter method, but it seems that may not exist without negative quality impacts.

One book: Brewing Engineering (Deeds, 2014)

One recipe: "WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' IBUS", Zymurgy, July/Aug 2019, p 9.

Follow the authors to their web sites (or homebrewing forums that the are active in).