Required: Red Recipe Help

[sieglere]

First off, sorry for the terrible alliteration in the title . I was hoping to get some input on a Red recipe I want to make.

So the plan is to make 3 gallons, and split it up into 4 1-gallon fermenters. In each fermenter, I will do a different yest/something slightly different. In fermenter 1, I was thinking of doing WLP002 English Ale yeast at 65º, in fermenter 2 Lallemand Belle Saison at 65º, in fermenter 3 Safbrew S-33 (at lager temps), and in fermenter 4 belle saison at closer to 75º or so.

The wort would be the same for all of these and follow the following recipe (based off of 5 gallons, and scaled down to 3)

Fermentables:
4.5 lb Light DME
1.5 lb Amber DME
1 lb Crystal 60L
0.25 lb Melanoidin
0.25 lb Carafa III Special
0.20 lb Flaked Wheat (for head retention)

Hops:
0.60 oz Columbus (15.2% AA) - 60 min
0.25 oz Cascade (7.1% AA) - 3 min
0.25 oz Cascade (7.1% AA) - 0 min

Yeast: as above


I am hoping to come up with what I think to be my new house recipe red and was looking for some input. The first three fermenters are fairly set in what I'd like to do with them, but the last one, I'm open to suggestions.

So thoughts on the grain bill and the last fermenter?

Thanks


[Edit: added flaked wheat (since I forgot)]

 

[Yooper]

Well, it depends on your goals. Since amber LME has crystal malt in it, you've effectively doubled up on the crystal. With the melanoidin, it'll be "thick" and malty and with all the crystal it'll be pretty sweet. With only .25 ounce of flavor and aroma hops, it won't have much hops aroma or flavor, and of course it will be very dark in color (black) with using carafa III.

It won't be a red, as it will be more like an English brown but with American hops and there aren't enough late hops to be hopped like an American red.

It looks like an OG of 1.090 or so.

It looks like a big stout, without roastiness. Maybe more like a dopplebock, except not a lager. It will be very very dark.

It really depends on what you want. You've got a black malty beer there. If that's what you want, then you'd be good. If you really want an American red, the grainbill and the hopping need some work for sure.

 

[sieglere]

Well I'm shooting for a red colored ale. I'm using the amber malt because that's what I happen to have some of (my current pantry supplies are 1.5# amber, 1.5# wheat, and 3# light). If I were to scale down, I could probably get away with only using the light.

As for the Carafa, i've done a red with a splash of this stuff, and it doesn't come out that dark. I used BrewR as a calculator and it gives me an OG of 1.061, an IBU of 19, and an SRM of 20.

I'm looking for a more malt forward beer, but I don't want the malts to be overly sweet. Does this clear any of your questions up?

 

[buzzerj]

This is a great grain bill to use that I employ for a good red ale using a partial mash BIAB recipe. Use a 1084 yeast and you have a good Irish Red. Use a 1968 yeast and you have a good Best Bitter. You could use your WLP002 for a good English Pale. In a 5 gallon batch this recipe will give you a 14 SRM. With the hopping schedule I use I get a 36 IBU. You could use Willamette alone for a 34 IBU beer. Also consider using Kent Goldings for this British style brew. I'll mash the malts at 1.25 quarts per pound at 153 degrees F for 60 minutes. I'll use a total boil volume of 4 gallons and top up to 5 gallons after adding the yeast. It makes a great red ale with a 4.7% ABV. The Special B gives the color and a nice caramel. Try it.

38% 3.00 lbs Golden Promise 60 min 2°L 37.0 16.65
9% 12.00 oz Belgian Biscuit Malt 60 min 23°L 36.0 4.05
9% 12.00 oz British Crystal 50/60 60 min 55°L 34.0 3.83
3% 4.00 oz Belgian Special B 60 min 220°L 30.0 1.13
40% 3.15 lbs Liquid Maris Otter Extract 0 min 5°L 36.0 22.68

1.00 oz US Willamette Leaf Boil 4.5% 60 min 3.83 18
1.00 oz US Sterling Leaf Boil 7.0% 15 min 5.95 14
1.00 oz US Willamette Leaf Boil 4.5% 5 min 3.83 4

1 tsp Irish Moss Boil 20 min

 

[ddrrseio]

have you plugged your recipe into brewtarget or beersmith? you'll have a great idea of the expected color, IBUs and attenuation. you'll also see instantly whether your recipe is to style, which may be important to you as you've said you want to do a red.

 

[sieglere]

I used BrewR as a calculator and it gives me an OG of 1.061, an IBU of 19, and an SRM of 20.

Yeah, I used BrewR

 

[ddrrseio]

ah, ok. i had missed that and hadn't heard of that program.

i also had missed the interesting array of yeasts you intend to try! that's quite a range, and i'm very curious about your results. please share your notes when you open them.

 

[sieglere]

Sure will. The recipe has been updated to read as the following based on a 3 gal batch size:

Fermentables:
1.224 kg Light DME
408 g Wheat DME
272 g Crystal 40L
68 g Melanoidin
54 g Carafa III Special
54 g Flaked Wheat

Hops:
8.7 g Columbus (15.2% AA) - 60 min
4.25 g Cascade (7.1% AA) - 3 min
4.25 g Cascade (7.1% AA) - 0 min

Sorry for the metric unit, but my tiny scale reads in grams and pounds/oz become cumbersome on the order of 10 grams.

The wort is in the pot boiling right now and the color is dark, but still quite red. See attached picture for a cell phone pic of the kettle

 

[sieglere]

So sorry for the delay. I tasted these beers with the help of friends and I was surprised at the marked difference between the beers.

The English ale had a nice malt profile. The melanoidin really shone through. The yeast profile wasn't pronounced.

The Belgian had typical Belgian yeast character. The malt profile was much harder to pick up. The sour(ish) yeast twang was the biggest trait.

The lager was nice. Smooth finish. Not as much malt flavor shining through. A bit bland

Over temperature Belgian yeast tasted muddled and unfinished. Basically a bad version of the proper temp Belgian

 

[sieglere]

The favorites were the English ale and the Belgian. The parties were split based on general preferences towards Belgian beers