Request: Bud Light Clone Recipe

[casualbrewer]

Oh yeah I have read that before. The one I just made had 6lbs 2 row, 2lbs Vienna, and 2 lbs flaked corn. Fermented with wlp940. I taste the Vienna too much compared to the real thing which isn't bad. I bet the real model has zero Vienna. I'm thinking it is a basic adjunct lager with a little c60 or something . I get that slight raisin flavor from it sometimes compared to the biscuit flavor of Vienna... quest continues.

 

[RCCOLA]

Something brought up in that thread was that the vienna I used was my LHBS's unlabeled malt which I believe is Breiss. May be why it didn't add too much flavor to my beer.

 

[casualbrewer]

I see. The Vienna that I'm using is very distinguishable and biscuity. The wlp940 I think is the perfect yeast though... good stuff

 

[NinjaBear]

what is that a picture of?

Bud Light at the local liquor store.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Let us know if he likes it.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Most people I know brainwashed enough to call bud light their favorite beer have no taste. Try this. Soak the labels off a six pack of BL. Pop the top and tell him it's your latest cloning effort. If he doesn't like it he's a closed minded as-hole and doesn't deserve freshly brewed beer.

 

[MaryB]

Looks like the last time I left a sample at the docs office...

My 2 cents as I've been making something that I call a "Bud Light" clone for some years now. Making something tasteless is difficult. It's more about the process and less about the recipe. Just getting the right ingredients does very little to help you make a Bud Light clone.

Go with 80% North American 2-row and 20% rice.
Target 10-12 IBU. A single 60 min addition with a clean noble hop. Bud supposedly used to Saaz or Hallertau. Today it's probably a clean extract (CO2 extracted resin). You want to boil the snot out of it and only impart bitterness, very little flavour.
Mashing low is critical. I tend to target about 4.0% ABV (Bud Light's actually 4.2% ABV) with gravities going from 1.034 to 1.003. You want it *DRY*. So do what it takes to do that on your setup.
If you single infusion, do 148F for 120 mins or so. If you can step mash that's better, something from low 140's for ~120 mins to high 140's for ~90 mins then mid 150's for 30-60 mins, then mashout to 168-170F. That's what I usually do. Bud light uses a 4 hour step mash but I'm not sure what their schedule is, but it's complicated a bit because they make a high ABV wort.
Get your mash to 5.2 pH (when measured at mash temp).
The water should indeed be soft (not much minerals in it). I tend to go with Mosher's ideal pale lager: Ca=21, Mg=5, Na=18, Cl=16, So4=21 (just enough ions to acidify the mash)
WLP840 American Lager yeast or WLP940 Mexican Lager both work well. Pitch a lot. You want at least 2-3 vials per 5 gallons and you want to pitch with the wort at 50F and already very well aerated (pure O2 recommended), then ferment at 52F (wort temp) until done.
Once fermentation is 100% done (hasn't moved in 1 week) I fine with gelatin for ~2 days, keg immediately and then store it at 32F for at least 1 month. 2 months is better. Carb to ~2.5 volumes or possibly even higher.

The results look like this:

Perfectly clear, good head (this one's settled a bit). It's actually a premium lager (not a light lager) but you get the idea. You can't tell the difference in photos.

So again, it's less about the recipe but more about the process.

Note: If you really want to mimic Bud Light you'd have to actually ferment a higher ABV wort (probably around 1.080) and then dilute with 50-60% water at packaging time.

Kal

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Looks like the last time I left a sample at the docs office...

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

 

[tootal]

In the above quote from Kal he states they probably use hop extract now. Well Kal, if you don't know for sure why even say it! They use only hop pellets now instead of whole cones. They actually test the whole cones from each farm in their lab. If it's good they accept the delivery of the pellets made from the test cones.
I know a lot of people on here love to hate AB and you might not enjoy their product, and that's fine, don't buy it. But to make up stories and tell falsehoods is BS! If you really don't think they can brew anything worth while I recommend you go to the Biergarten and order a Faust.
Bud Light is high gravity brewed using all natural ingredients. Not all light beers can claim that. It uses pellet hops 3 times in the boil. Anybody can try and make a clone but your calories and carbohydrates will be much higher. Several of the recipes on this thread sound good for making lawn mower beer. I prefer Busch, which the brewer's jokingly call a mixed drink since other beers are blended in but it's so minute I doubt if anybody could tell.
So please refrain from guessing how it's made. I was Vice Chairman of the AB Home Brewer's Group. I had access to the whole brewery including the Hop House. I saw what goes in the beer and could even watch it on the computer where they did old fashion cereal mashes, a form of decoction!! After working there for over 34 years I might have a little better insight as to How it's Made!

 

[douglasbarbin]

^ so are you going to provide any meaningful insight to the recipe?

 

[BeardedBrews]

I saw what goes in the beer and could even watch it on the computer where they did old fashion cereal mashes, a form of decoction!! After working there for over 34 years I might have a little better insight as to How it's Made!

I scrolled back and didn't see your clone recipe posted in the thread.

Please share!

So far I have:
Target 4.2% at 7 IBU
30% rice with "Some" 6-Row
Additional 6-Row and 2-Row
~? IBU Willamette/Haller/Saaz Blended at 60 Minutes
~? IBU Willamette/Haller/Saaz Blended at 20 Minutes
~? IBU Willamette/Haller/Saaz Blended at FO


Frankly, I think Kal's post might be the more constructive one in a thread of people trying to help clone a very popular beer.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Kal's post was definitely more constructive than a bunch of "back in my day" bragging and AB marketing-speak.

 

[Johntodd]

Oops ... forgot to refresh the tab. Nevermind this post, MODS please delete.

 

[kal]

In the above quote from Kal he states they probably use hop extract now. Well Kal, if you don't know for sure why even say it!

I mentioned that they "probably" used extract. For those that may want to try to get closer. Sorry it offended.

I know a lot of people on here love to hate AB and you might not enjoy their product, and that's fine, don't buy it. But to make up stories and tell falsehoods is BS!

If you follow my comments here and elsewhere about macro brewers, you'll see that I'm one of the first ones to indicate that how difficult it is to make such a consistent product, and a product that doesn't have much flavour. As I pointed out earlier, I've brewed this many times now for the challenge. I enjoy it. It's a very hard beer to brew well. I've always had utmost respect for their brewing process and science.

Bud Light is high gravity brewed using all natural ingredients. Not all light beers can claim that. It uses pellet hops 3 times in the boil.

Any info on what type and when it's added? I'm curious. The more information you have the better.

Trying to come up with the right recipe/process when little is known usually involves throwing out lots of different ideas, many of which will get shot down. That's part of the process.

Happy brewing!

Kal

 

[tootal]

Kal's post was definitely more constructive than a bunch of "back in my day" bragging and AB marketing-speak.

Bragging? Marketing speak? Really? I have no problem with anybody's clone recipe for a light lager. I think it's awesome that some attempt it as it's not easy. I always tell folks that if you can brew a light lager without any off flavors you can truly call yourself a brewer!

I've never tried to brew Bud Light but have brewed a pre prohibition Bud which I took to the Brewers Heritage Fest last week and it was well received. Especially in the upper 90's heat!

Remember recipe's will get close but as ingredients change, from year to year, you brew to a taste profile. So the recipe's are always tweaked to maintain a certain profile.

I gave you some basic numbers. 6 row is used for the cereal mash as 6 row will break down the rice better than 2 row. Some of AB beers are all 6 row malt. If you have some brewing software you can pretty much use what I gave to to make your own recipe. I mean they don't exactly broadcast the recipes!

Experimenting and tweaking to make it the way you want it is part of the fun isn't it!

 

[LBussy]

I just found this thread and read about half of it before jumping to the end so if I repeat something somebody said my apologies but I'm running out of time.

So I respect anybody brewing a light beer. As mentioned, you can't hide behind anything! That's why I recommend it. I have have brewed a pre prohibition bud several times now and it's well received, even by the brewmaster at AB. He even ran it through the lab for me.

So I don't know the exact recipe for Bud Light as it's not watered down Bud. They are both "high gravity" brewed. I believe Bud is 7% originally and then taken down to 5% with blending water, which is awesome to drink by itself!

Bud Light is brewed at an even higher gravity and blended down to 4.2%. It has roughly 30% rice and they do a "cereal mash" with some 6-row malt. This is added to the rest of the 6-row and 2-row that is sitting at a protein rest to bring it to 149 degrees.

So to do a Bud light I would make it a 4.2% beer. Do a cereal mash with chopped rice. I run mine through a blender in chop mode. 1/16" to 1/8" pieces works well. Do research on cereal mashes to get better procedures. Otherwise use rice flakes if you have to.

Bud Light is only 6 or 7 IBU's today. Bud is 9. Use a variety of hops at 60, 20 and flame out. Willamette, Hallertau and Saaz are all good candidates.

Be very sanitary after the boil!!!

Use Wyeast American Lager yeast, I've forgotten the number. Ferment at 52 degrees for three weeks. Lager for a week at 33 degrees. Carbonate and serve.

Beachwood has been boiled and rinsed so many times it produces no flavor at all, it's just a home for the yeast to speed up fermentation and to act as a filter.

I thought I'd quote this as I found it helpful, and apparently some folks missed it when it was originally posted.

 

[LBussy]

Since we're now talking about blending down a beer (I'll avoid saying "watered down" as much as possible), how does that impact IBU calculation? When we say 6 or 7 IBU's, does it matter that this is blended down from a bigger beer? If I were to try to follow this would I (for the sake of easy math) make a 8.4% ABW beer @ 12-14 IBU and would blending that by half leave me with 6-7 IBU or is it more complicated than that?

 

[tootal]

Since we're now talking about blending down a beer (I'll avoid saying "watered down" as much as possible), how does that impact IBU calculation? When we say 6 or 7 IBU's, does it matter that this is blended down from a bigger beer? If I were to try to follow this would I (for the sake of easy math) make a 8.4% ABW beer @ 12-14 IBU and would blending that by half leave me with 6-7 IBU or is it more complicated than that?

That's a great question as I've never tried to brew it like that. I've been using Pro Mash for many years and keep using it because I'm old and don't like change! Let me play with it and see if I can figure out how to do it.

And you can say "watered down" all you want, I was just using the term we use.

 

[tootal]

Ok, I put a recipe in at 1.080 and 13.6 IBU'S. I then ramped the size of the brew from 5 gallons to 10 gallons and I ended up at 1.040 and 7.8 IBU's. So if it works exactly I don't know but it should be close. Definitely worth a try. You can make blending water by using distilled or RO water and then carbonating it.

So it looks like it's that easy, brew 5 gallons and blend it to 10 gallons! I see that the gravity is easy division but since hops are more efficient in the thinner mash they are showing higher than being divided by 2, so I would think the actual math is going to be more accurate than what ProMash is saying since it's taking gravity in the boil into consideration.

Give it a try and let us know how it turns out! I may try that this Fall when we can start brewing lagers again.

 

[BobOki]

Ok, I put a recipe in at 1.080 and 13.6 IBU'S. I then ramped the size of the brew from 5 gallons to 10 gallons and I ended up at 1.040 and 7.8 IBU's. So if it works exactly I don't know but it should be close. Definitely worth a try. You can make blending water by using distilled or RO water and then carbonating it.

So it looks like it's that easy, brew 5 gallons and blend it to 10 gallons! I see that the gravity is easy division but since hops are more efficient in the thinner mash they are showing higher than being divided by 2, so I would think the actual math is going to be more accurate than what ProMash is saying since it's taking gravity in the boil into consideration.

Give it a try and let us know how it turns out! I may try that this Fall when we can start brewing lagers again.

It almost seems like cheating to be honest, but then again if we are trying to replicate a flavor, then if they cheat, so must we ;P I have to wait a little longer before I can try my clone, it was too sour and not lagered enough, but the aftertaste was spot on.... so I have high hopes. If this indeed is how to do it to get that more subdued flavor, then I would need to ramp the recipe down to 2.5 gallon, then just top up with treated water.

On a side note, let's keep this thread civil guys, to my knowledge this is the most informative and serious thread for actual talk on this type of beer without it having devolved into jokes about how terrible the beer itself is. Let's keep it that way for anyone BMC and see if we can finally come up with a match for what I am finding to be the hardest brew I have ever done thus far. Ain't no hiding flavors with extra hops in this brew -_-;;

 

[LBussy]

I think making jokes about the beer is perfectly acceptable - so long as you are skilled enough to make it. How's that for a rule?

 

[tootal]

I have no problems with joking. Hell, I ask my bartender at my local micro for a Bud Light Lime and everybody looks at me like I'm crazy for asking but when he hands me some ice water with a lime everybody laughs! I mean most people call Bud Clydesdale piss. I just don't like it when they actually say falsehoods as facts. Of all the things they've done over the years that I disagreed with the one thing they've always had was their quality. It really is their most important objective.

As someone who maintained the equipment I know they even tested gasket materials to make sure they had no impact on taste or odor. When a beer is that light anything can give you an off flavor.

 

[LBussy]

So this blending water. It's carbonated? Would it be treated with some sort of base like gypsum or whatever to balance the pH?

 

[tamac38]

2.25 lbs.6 row
3.6 lbs. Pilsner
3.15 lbs. Rice - I used long grain
.25 Oz's. Hallertau 60 min. Boil
.15 ozs Willamette 10 min. Boil

Mash 60 min. @ 148 degrees
Boil 60 min.
5 gal. Total

Turned out pretty close to BL, but was much more flavorful.

Good luck !

 

[GrogNerd]

2.25 lbs.6 row
3.6 lbs. Pilsner
3.15 lbs. Rice - I used long grain
.25 Oz's. Hallertau 60 min. Boil
.15 ozs Willamette 10 min. Boil

Mash 60 min. @ 148 degrees
Boil 60 min.
5 gal. Total

Turned out pretty close to BL, but was much more flavorful.

Good luck !

flavor is a flaw in a BL clone

like I said, pilsner is too much flavor for a clone

 

[tootal]

So this blending water. It's carbonated? Would it be treated with some sort of base like gypsum or whatever to balance the pH?

I don't know the ph. They used to use city water run through carbon filters but now they have an RO system. St. Louis city water is excellent for brewing but St. Louis beer was hard to duplicate elsewhere so they put RO systems in all the breweries and then add what they need to get the water they want. Helps Bud taste the same everywhere.
I do know they use sulfuric acid to adjust the alkalinity. A little dab will do ya!

You might try testing the ph of the beer and making it the same.

 

[mike_57401]

2.25 lbs.6 row
3.6 lbs. Pilsner
3.15 lbs. Rice - I used long grain
.25 Oz's. Hallertau 60 min. Boil
.15 ozs Willamette 10 min. Boil

Mash 60 min. @ 148 degrees
Boil 60 min.
5 gal. Total

Turned out pretty close to BL, but was much more flavorful.

Good luck !

By the way, BL is filtered. I suspect some of the "flavor" absent in BL is due to filtration

 

[estricklin]

It almost seems like cheating to be honest, but then again if we are trying to replicate a flavor, then if they cheat, so must we ;P I have to wait a little longer before I can try my clone, it was too sour and not lagered enough, but the aftertaste was spot on.... so I have high hopes. If this indeed is how to do it to get that more subdued flavor, then I would need to ramp the recipe down to 2.5 gallon, then just top up with treated water.

On a side note, let's keep this thread civil guys, to my knowledge this is the most informative and serious thread for actual talk on this type of beer without it having devolved into jokes about how terrible the beer itself is. Let's keep it that way for anyone BMC and see if we can finally come up with a match for what I am finding to be the hardest brew I have ever done thus far. Ain't no hiding flavors with extra hops in this brew -_-;;

Thank you. I actually take this pretty serious myself, as I've brewed this clone, literally dozens of times, and was dumb enough to brew 25 gallons of it at one time. It's a challenge, but I actually LIKE the beer style too. It's the most popular beer style in the world, and yet homebrewers largely ignore it. No one should have to defend themselves on this forum, for posting about BREWING BEER, no matter the style.

I actually had an opportunity to brew another clone since I posted earlier in this thread, it is lagering now. I used S-23 because I didn't have any 34/70 available, so I don't think it will be as good as it could be. I did do a nice protein rest, and basically followed the recipe/advice I gave earlier, I would be happy to update you with the results when it comes time to taste.

As for the blending mentioned, I still don't think it's necessary, but my attempt was inconclusive. This most recent batch had a tad bit higher OG than I was shooting for, so I may blend it. The pH of the water to be used won't matter much if your using distilled water, since there aren't minerals present to buffer the pH, though if you want to adjust the minerals for taste that is another matter.

I have several things I've been working on for this clone, I really need to find out exactly how AB handles the rice. I'm sure they are doing some decoctions but I have not been able to find out any more of the process.

I have been contemplating doing some beechwood testing. I would like to boil some beechwood with and without a light caustic, in water, and see if I can taste any flavor impact. AB claims there is no flavor impact, but I'm not in the habit of taking things at face value. Would also be willing to try using other objects instead of the beechwood to accomplish the task, anything that floats seems as if it would work. Styrofoam?

 

[nmfree]

the off flavor will make it taste like home brew

ipe:

Ce n'est pas une bière maison.

 

[tootal]

Thank you. I actually take this pretty serious myself, as I've brewed this clone, literally dozens of times, and was dumb enough to brew 25 gallons of it at one time. It's a challenge, but I actually LIKE the beer style too. It's the most popular beer style in the world, and yet homebrewers largely ignore it. No one should have to defend themselves on this forum, for posting about BREWING BEER, no matter the style.

I actually had an opportunity to brew another clone since I posted earlier in this thread, it is lagering now. I used S-23 because I didn't have any 34/70 available, so I don't think it will be as good as it could be. I did do a nice protein rest, and basically followed the recipe/advice I gave earlier, I would be happy to update you with the results when it comes time to taste.

As for the blending mentioned, I still don't think it's necessary, but my attempt was inconclusive. This most recent batch had a tad bit higher OG than I was shooting for, so I may blend it. The pH of the water to be used won't matter much if your using distilled water, since there aren't minerals present to buffer the pH, though if you want to adjust the minerals for taste that is another matter.

I have several things I've been working on for this clone, I really need to find out exactly how AB handles the rice. I'm sure they are doing some decoctions but I have not been able to find out any more of the process.

I have been contemplating doing some beechwood testing. I would like to boil some beechwood with and without a light caustic, in water, and see if I can taste any flavor impact. AB claims there is no flavor impact, but I'm not in the habit of taking things at face value. Would also be willing to try using other objects instead of the beechwood to accomplish the task, anything that floats seems as if it would work. Styrofoam?

I'm glad to see you've had some success in brewing this style, I know it's not easy. As far as the rice, it is milled but I don't know how fine. As a home brewer I use an old blender in the chop mode. Fill it a forth of the way full and chop for ten seconds or so. I don't want powder, just uniform pieces the same length as diameter. Too much powder can stick your mash unless you're brewing in a bag.

They do what's called a cereal mash. You take roughly half as much 6 row as you have rice. Mash it with the rice at 144 degrees for 15 minutes. Raise to 158 for 15 minutes. Raise to 176 for 10 minutes. Bring it to a boil for 15 minutes. You must constantly stir and use just enough heat to maintain a boil or you will scorch it. The water will get soaked up so if it gets too thick just add some more. I make a pretty thin mash in the beginning because of this.

Now I have a brewing partner so if you have a friend that likes to help, now is their time. While somebody is stirring the cereal mash, somebody needs to be setting the rest of the malt at a protein rest. I like using 131 degrees which is high for a typical "protein rest" but with today's malts it works well.

Once your protein rest has been 20 minutes long then add the cereal mash to it. You may not need it all to raise the temps to 149 so don't just dump it in. Add some and stir an take a temp reading. Anything left over just let cool to 149 and then add it back in.

If you're by yourself then when the boil of the cereal mash is done turn off your heat and stir for another minute so you don't scorch it. Then set up the rest of the mash. With the cereal mash cooling during the protein rest you may get to use the whole thing at once but don't take my word for it, I would still add and check so you don't overshoot 149.

Now I get comments like I'm an idiot for doing all that work when you can just add rice flakes but I'm convinced anytime you boil part of the mash the results are worth it.

Now as far as Beechwood? Don't waste your time. It really doesn't add any flavor. I've seen how they prepare it and nothing is going to live through that!

 

[GrogNerd]

No one should have to defend themselves on this forum, for posting about BREWING BEER, no matter the style.

agreed

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I heard a recent show on the Brewing Network. The guy on the show, (don't remember his name) used to work at a Budweiser brewery. He said in the 1980s that the younger son took over and disliked hop aroma so they actually installed a process to remove any remaining hop aroma. He was talking about Budweiser but I guess Budlight has a similar process? So a bit of hops for 60 minute to reach 8 IBU is fine. I have never perceived any hop flavor or aroma in Bud light. With beer so light with so few ingredients, with rice added to lighten the flavor and so little hops that it seems like the most important flavor component would be yeast type and fermentation tempetature and perhaps getting the water right.

 

[nmfree]

I heard a recent show on the Brewing Network. The guy on the show, (don't remember his name) used to work at a Budweiser brewery. He said in the 1980s that the younger son took over and disliked hop aroma so they actually installed a process to remove any remaining hop aroma. He was talking about Budweiser but I guess Budlight has a similar process? So a bit of hops for 60 minute to reach 8 IBU is fine. I have never perceived any hop flavor or aroma in Bud light. With beer so light with so few ingredients, with rice added to lighten the flavor and so little hops that it seems like the most important flavor component would be yeast type and fermentation tempetature and perhaps getting the water right.

From Bitter Brew: The Rise and Fall of Anheuser-Busch and America's Kings of Beer:

Along with the entire A-B hierarchy, August [Busch III] thought Miller Lite tasted thin and watery, so [Andrew] Steinhubl’s recipe for Budweiser Light increased the amount of hops in the mix to give it more flavor... At the time, most European beers had an IBU between 20 and 45. Budweiser had an IBU of 15. For Budweiser Light, Steinhubl bumped the IBU to 17, which was potentially problematic because August didn’t like bitter. In fact, he claimed that whenever he tasted Budweiser that contained a slightly elevated level of hops, he experienced a throbbing sensation in his forehead that he called “head feel.”*
Veterans of tasting sessions with August had seen head feel. It registered on his face as he squinted his eyes, furrowed his brow, and began rubbing his forehead with his forefinger and thumb. But only one other person, Denny Long, ever felt the sensation. “Maybe it was because he trained me to taste,” said Long, who described the feeling as “the onset of a sinus headache right above the eyebrows.” Still, Long said he only experienced head feel once or twice. And most of August’s fellow tasters thought head feel was a figment of his imagination. They’d roll their eyes and exchange looks whenever he brought it up, and joke behind his back: “Yeah, I’ve had head feel, boss. It’s called a hangover.”

* August would eventually decide it wasn’t hops that caused his head feel. Rather it was a certain grade of rice that included broken kernels.

The whole book is interesting reading, especially the part detailing the internal "war" over the IBUs in Bud Lite.

edit: it would help if I finished my

 

[estricklin]

I'm glad to see you've had some success in brewing this style, I know it's not easy. As far as the rice, it is milled but I don't know how fine. As a home brewer I use an old blender in the chop mode. Fill it a forth of the way full and chop for ten seconds or so. I don't want powder, just uniform pieces the same length as diameter. Too much powder can stick your mash unless you're brewing in a bag.

They do what's called a cereal mash. You take roughly half as much 6 row as you have rice. Mash it with the rice at 144 degrees for 15 minutes. Raise to 158 for 15 minutes. Raise to 176 for 10 minutes. Bring it to a boil for 15 minutes. You must constantly stir and use just enough heat to maintain a boil or you will scorch it. The water will get soaked up so if it gets too thick just add some more. I make a pretty thin mash in the beginning because of this.

Now I have a brewing partner so if you have a friend that likes to help, now is their time. While somebody is stirring the cereal mash, somebody needs to be setting the rest of the malt at a protein rest. I like using 131 degrees which is high for a typical "protein rest" but with today's malts it works well.

Once your protein rest has been 20 minutes long then add the cereal mash to it. You may not need it all to raise the temps to 149 so don't just dump it in. Add some and stir an take a temp reading. Anything left over just let cool to 149 and then add it back in.

If you're by yourself then when the boil of the cereal mash is done turn off your heat and stir for another minute so you don't scorch it. Then set up the rest of the mash. With the cereal mash cooling during the protein rest you may get to use the whole thing at once but don't take my word for it, I would still add and check so you don't overshoot 149.

Now I get comments like I'm an idiot for doing all that work when you can just add rice flakes but I'm convinced anytime you boil part of the mash the results are worth it.

Now as far as Beechwood? Don't waste your time. It really doesn't add any flavor. I've seen how they prepare it and nothing is going to live through that!

The idea of grinding the rice into smaller pieces I like, I hadn't thought of it. I've done cereal mashes before, BUT I cooked the rice first after my first try. If the proteins in the rice aren't gelatinized I don't think mashing it would do much good. The main problem I see with this beer, is getting it dry enough, and that means particular attention to the mash conversion. Rice gelatinzies at a higher temperature than most other grains, somewhere around 170F if I remember correctly. Grinding it into smaller pieces may change the whole game, but something tells me it would still need to boil for a while to become fully gelantinized. If your using some form of pre-gelatinized rice then it would not be necessary. If have always wondered if a lower temperature mash is what's really needed, because slightly higher mash temps would favor the rice being converted more easily. Today's malt is highly modified as everyone will say, but as the adjunct percentage goes up the protein rest becomes important.

As you've stated above it can be quite precarious to get the mash temp adjusted properly when doing a cereal mash, I had to experiment but basically ended up with a process that's close to what you mentioned. When I have done a cereal mash, I usually dumped it all into the protein rest at once, and if the mash temp was a little high I left the lid off of my mash tun and stirred to get it down a few degrees, a person could even add some room temp water if need be.

What do they do to prepare the beechwood? If the beechwood itself doesn't contribute flavor, the process as it relates to the yeast might. At one time I believed it to be more of a tradition and marketing ploy, but I am not so sure now.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I copied this from another forum...

ABInBevAMA,

I work for Anheuser Busch. I'm going to copy my answer to this question from another thread so I don't have to retype it all

The beechwood started use during a brewing era (1876, as the ad indicated) when the microbiology of yeast wasn't fully understood. Many brewers all over the country used wood chips as a process aid - it wasn't unique to Anheuser Busch in the nineteenth century like it is now. They were used to combat premature flocculation and dormant yeast, a condition which caused the beer to stall during fermentation and not "dry out". The wood strips are naturally curly and help hold the yeast in suspension like a bioreactor, counteracting yeast dormancy and allowing the yeast to finish metabolizing the barley sugars. When they say beechwood aging gives the beer a crisp clean flavor, they don't mean from the wood - they mean the beer is crisp because it's not overly sweet (because it was allowed to fully finish fermentation). The wood itself provides zero flavor to the beer - it is thoroughly boiled to remove all flavor before it's ever used in a lagering tank.

Now days the science of brewing has advanced to the point where we could brew without beechwood just fine. We understand what causes flocculation behavior in yeast. The use of beechwood is largely traditional but it still does provide value to the process by speeding up secondary fermentation. If you have any questions about it I could try and answer them.

 

[tootal]

The idea of grinding the rice into smaller pieces I like, I hadn't thought of it. I've done cereal mashes before, BUT I cooked the rice first after my first try. If the proteins in the rice aren't gelatinized I don't think mashing it would do much good. The main problem I see with this beer, is getting it dry enough, and that means particular attention to the mash conversion. Rice gelatinzies at a higher temperature than most other grains, somewhere around 170F if I remember correctly. Grinding it into smaller pieces may change the whole game, but something tells me it would still need to boil for a while to become fully gelantinized. If your using some form of pre-gelatinized rice then it would not be necessary. If have always wondered if a lower temperature mash is what's really needed, because slightly higher mash temps would favor the rice being converted more easily. Today's malt is highly modified as everyone will say, but as the adjunct percentage goes up the protein rest becomes important.

As you've stated above it can be quite precarious to get the mash temp adjusted properly when doing a cereal mash, I had to experiment but basically ended up with a process that's close to what you mentioned. When I have done a cereal mash, I usually dumped it all into the protein rest at once, and if the mash temp was a little high I left the lid off of my mash tun and stirred to get it down a few degrees, a person could even add some room temp water if need be.

What do they do to prepare the beechwood? If the beechwood itself doesn't contribute flavor, the process as it relates to the yeast might. At one time I believed it to be more of a tradition and marketing ploy, but I am not so sure now.

The cereal mash temps are for the 6 row malt to convert at the lower temps. At 176 - 180 the rice gelatinizes and then the boil. I don't understand all the chemistry in the procedure but do it because that's what one of the brew masters said they do. All I know is it works! Our efficiency is always really good.

 

[BobOki]

Ok, small update. I think the beer has lagered enough. So I tasted it side-by-side with a BL and this is pretty close. The BL seems to have a little more crispness to it up-front when you first sip it. My brew has more of a noticeable grain flavor aftertaste than the BL which seems to have nearly zero aftertaste. Now after the aftertaste is gone, that lingering flavor both taste exactly the same.

I am thinking that perhaps I am missing something to make it a little more crisp... and like everyone else said probably need to dilute it after brewing to remove some of that grain aftertaste. As it stands, next to a BL this a very drinkable beer and I think my GFs dad will love it. We will see

 

[kal]

Ok, small update. I think the beer has lagered enough. So I tasted it side-by-side with a BL and this is pretty close. The BL seems to have a little more crispness to it up-front when you first sip it. My brew has more of a noticeable grain flavor aftertaste than the BL which seems to have nearly zero aftertaste. Now after the aftertaste is gone, that lingering flavor both taste exactly the same.

I am thinking that perhaps I am missing something to make it a little more crisp... and like everyone else said probably need to dilute it after brewing to remove some of that grain aftertaste. As it stands, next to a BL this a very drinkable beer and I think my GFs dad will love it. We will see

Water chemistry (IMHO) plays a big part in getting this beer right, ensuring the flavour's as low as possible.

I poked around in the earlier posts in this thread but don't remember seeing where you posted the full recipe/process you ended up doing, including water adjustments. What did you end up doing in the end?

Kal

 

[BobOki]

Water chemistry (IMHO) plays a big part in getting this beer right, ensuring the flavour's as low as possible.

I poked around in the earlier posts in this thread but don't remember seeing where you posted the full recipe/process you ended up doing, including water adjustments. What did you end up doing in the end?

Kal

I used the water profile that was posted at the beginning of the thread by @Gavin C which is the Munich Boiled, and just made needed adjustments from my tap water to meet it. Mash PH was 5.4. The recipe I used is available in the link in my signature. Keep in mind I use Grainfather for my brewing, so my process is a tad..... easier than standard AG brewing

 

[sfish]

Is there an update and feedback from GF Dad?