Request: Augustiner Marzen Clone

[slightlyoffbeat]

OK, i've seen one or two (old) threads discussing this, but I thought I'd try again. My wife and I visited Augustiner about a year ago. If you ever have the opportunity, I highly recommend it. They serve a Marzen year-around that is excellent. I've had several Marzen beers over the years, but that one has always stuck with me.

Has anyone cloned this with any success? You can find some info about the beer here.

I plan to use that info plus Jamil's recipe as a starting point, but any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[johnwpowell]

Ever find any info?

 

[slightlyoffbeat]

Sadly, no. I never got around to brewing a Marzen, but I will to it some day. :/

 

[johnwpowell]

This is honestly the best beer I've had in my life. Maybe it was just such a hot day in Salzburg and we had walked miles, but it is my white whale beer. I've put together a recipe from what I can piece together. I do know some of the variables such as the type of malt and hops and the ABV, but I don't know SRM, IBU or other details. Here's the recipe which I plan to try very soon: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1491052/jps-augustiner-braustubl-bier-marzen

 

[balto charlie]

German Marzen/Oktoberfest beers have the best malt flavor of any beers in the world. The U.S. brews are lacking in comparison.

I have had my best results using the double decoction or Hochkurz double decoction methods. There use to be a member, Kai, that hosts a site w/ good information on German brewing. I doubt the Germans use this method anymore but it truly gives the malt flavor a significant boost.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing

I tried to contact Ayinger a few years ago on their recipe....no response.

 

[Sadu]

Maybe its just me, but I found the BCS recipe a bit sickly sweet from all that caramunich. I'm having another go with half the amount and replacing it with a bit of biscuit and wheat malt. It could also just need a bit more bittering to balance things.

 

[johnwpowell]

I've contacted the brewery and hoping to get feedback from the brewers on my version. I got an initial response that they are using the original recipe from 1519 but trying to get more info.

 

[johnwpowell]

I went back to augustiner a couple weeks ago and brought some back to compare. I brewed a batch that is lagering and its damn close. I posted it on beersmith. Search for jp's augustiner

 

[wobdee]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting that the recipe is just Pils and Carahell. I've heard they're Marzen/ofest is basically a beefier Helles. Have any pictures of the beer?

 

[MrPowers]

There are two different kinds of Festbier. Modern Festbier is basically a beefed up Helles, pale in color but higher in alcohol than a standard Helles. Pils and Carahell would generally be used in this style.

Marzen is the older style of Festbier and is more amber in color. Most of these include a large portion of Vienna and/or Munich in the grainbill.

Looking at pictures, Augustiners looks like a more modern style Festbier, even though they call it a Marzen.

 

[wobdee]

There are two different kinds of Festbier. Modern Festbier is basically a beefed up Helles, pale in color but higher in alcohol than a standard Helles. Pils and Carahell would generally be used in this style.

Marzen is the older style of Festbier and is more amber in color. Most of these include a large portion of Vienna and/or Munich in the grainbill.

Looking at pictures, Augustiners looks like a more modern style Festbier, even though they call it a Marzen.

Yep, I like to mostly brew mine somewhere in-between those two styles.

 

[johnwpowell]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting that the recipe is just Pils and Carahell. I've heard they're Marzen/ofest is basically a beefier Helles. Have any pictures of the beer?

Here's the pic (note this is the actual beer).

 

[wobdee]

Thanks, Nice looking beer, makes me thirsty.

 

[johnwpowell]

Thanks, Nice looking beer, makes me thirsty.

Let me tell you after walking around Salzburg in the summer it is the best thing you ever tasted

 

[DeanRIowa]

Let me tell you after walking around Salzburg in the summer it is the best thing you ever tasted

I couldn't agree more, the springs and summers were quite hot and the beers were very refreshing. The beer was also quite good in the winter, with less people. I was last in Salzburg in late 80s and early 90s, I need to get back someday.

I think try to brew up a batch of Marzen, and I was planning to use your recipe for a starting point with a couple of small tweeks. Thank you for your efforts.

Did you ever get a response from the brewery?

Dean

 

[johnwpowell]

I couldn't agree more, the springs and summers were quite hot and the beers were very refreshing. The beer was also quite good in the winter, with less people. I was last in Salzburg in late 80s and early 90s, I need to get back someday.

I think try to brew up a batch of Marzen, and I was planning to use your recipe for a starting point with a couple of small tweeks. Thank you for your efforts.

Did you ever get a response from the brewery?

Dean

They did respond and said it’s a closely guarded secret.

PM me and I’ll send you my beer.xml file from my last attempt.

 

[Wingman646]

I think this is JPs newer, closer clone version.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1552597/jps-augustiner-braustubl

I keep trying to make this but every time I go to order the grain bill I wind up with a bunch of caravienna and caramunich in it and feel like I got tricked by some malt gremlin. I am committed though, my next marzen/festbier will be this recipe!

 

[Wingman646]

Oh, but I did try to make this for my first all grain recipe and completely screwed it up. I misread the grain bill and ended up with 7.5# of Carapils instead of Pilsner... So yeah, my primary grain was dextrine malt. I will say, however, my "Oops! Oktoberfest" actually turned out awesome and was a smash hit. I didn't think it would work, being primarily dextrine malt, but it did.

Homebrewing is awesome

 

[Bierkrug]

This is my first comment here..so, hi, I guess

@ People looking for Märzen recipes: If you want classic German Märzen or Festbier, don't brew this beer.
Austrian Märzen is more like German Helles, it's called 'Märzen österreichischer Brauart', Austrian style, basically.

@johnwpowell For this beer I highly recommend doing a decoction + mashing for low attenuation. Maybe also a less attenuative yeast strain, the attenuation of Augustiner is only at around 72%

Modern malts may not 'need' decoction anymore, but it still contributes flavour and colour.
I have no clue if their traditional coolship has any impact on the beer, maybe, maybe not.

 

[balto charlie]

I also do a double decoction while brewing my Oktoberfest (recipe below). Strong malt flavor without being too sweet. Most Oktoberfest beers in U.S. are sweet.


oktoberfest 11

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.23 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 11.98 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 11.00 gal

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 1 50.0 %
8 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 33.3 %
4 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 16.7 %
4.00 oz Saaz [3.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 4 21.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [236.60 ml] Yeast 5 -

 

[RCubed76]

I'm new to home brewing, but I'd love to try your Augustiner clone. I've enjoyed it a couple times and it's my favorite beer. I'm confused by your amounts though. How are you using 3.5 gallons of water for a 5 gallon batch? Not trying to be a smart a$$. Like I said, I'm new. I'd appreciate any advice you could offer. Also, I don't really have a way to truly lager so I'm planning to "cheat" and use clean-fermenting ale yeast. Thanks!

 

[johnwpowell]

I'm new to home brewing, but I'd love to try your Augustiner clone. I've enjoyed it a couple times and it's my favorite beer. I'm confused by your amounts though. How are you using 3.5 gallons of water for a 5 gallon batch? Not trying to be a smart a$$. Like I said, I'm new. I'd appreciate any advice you could offer. Also, I don't really have a way to truly lager so I'm planning to "cheat" and use clean-fermenting ale yeast. Thanks!

There’s a good chance that was only the mash water and left out the sparge water. Let me re adjust this recipe and see what’s up and thank you for reminding me it’s time to brew it again.

 

[johnwpowell]

I'm new to home brewing, but I'd love to try your Augustiner clone. I've enjoyed it a couple times and it's my favorite beer. I'm confused by your amounts though. How are you using 3.5 gallons of water for a 5 gallon batch? Not trying to be a smart a$$. Like I said, I'm new. I'd appreciate any advice you could offer. Also, I don't really have a way to truly lager so I'm planning to "cheat" and use clean-fermenting ale yeast. Thanks!

Yes it was only the mash water. The preboil volume is 6.2gallons. I have a completely new process and equipment now and do electric biab. What equipment are you using

 

[RCubed76]

My equipment is pretty basic - a 10 gallon kettle for mash water, a converted cooler as a mash tun, a 6 gallon kettle for sparge water, an immersion chiller, a couple fermenting buckets, and a bottling bucket. As basic as it comes! I really appreciate your reply though. Do you think cheating with ale yeast will produce something drinkable?

 

[johnwpowell]

My equipment is pretty basic - a 10 gallon kettle for mash water, a converted cooler as a mash tun, a 6 gallon kettle for sparge water, an immersion chiller, a couple fermenting buckets, and a bottling bucket. As basic as it comes! I really appreciate your reply though. Do you think cheating with ale yeast will produce something drinkable?

I sure do! Who knows maybe even a clean kveik yeast

 

[johnwpowell]

Working on an updated recipe for 2020.
JP's Augustiner Bräustübl - JP
Brewfather

 

[Johnsiii]

Working on an updated recipe for 2020.
JP's Augustiner Bräustübl - JP
Brewfather

I'd love to see a copy of your recipe if you are happy with it. My son and I have thoroughly enjoyed some beers at the Augustiner. We were there last summer. I hope to reproduce it as best I can. I do 5 gallon BIAB batches and I use Brewfather.

 

[Die_Beerery]

45% carahell?!? You cray cray.
Better brew it low oxygen as well. Since all these breweries are low oxygen

 

[johnwpowell]

I'd love to see a copy of your recipe if you are happy with it. My son and I have thoroughly enjoyed some beers at the Augustiner. We were there last summer. I hope to reproduce it as best I can. I do 5 gallon BIAB batches and I use Brewfather.

The link is above

 

[johnwpowell]

45% carahell?!? You cray cray.
Better brew it low oxygen as well. Since all these breweries are low oxygen

I’ve dialed it back to 10-15%

 

[Johnsiii]

The link is above

ok thanks. I realized that after I sent me msg. I'm going to brew again soon so was researching the best Augustiner clone recipes.

 

[johnwpowell]

ok thanks. I realized that after I sent me msg. I'm going to brew again soon so was researching the best Augustiner clone recipes.

I haven’t tried this recipe yet but will in probably a week. Please read my notes in the recipe. I contacted Augustiner again today but they won’t give me any more info. Just having IBU or SRM would be helpful.

 

[Die_Beerery]

I’ve dialed it back to 10-15%

Still too high.

 

[johnwpowell]

Still too high.

Help a brother out. What amount would you recommend and why.

 

[Die_Beerery]

I have no idea what Augustiner uses, nor will they ever tell you. Kara-extra-hell only means light cara, which would be anything, and most likely nothing we can get. How ever I do know a thing or two about German recipes, and I can tell you any % of caramalt in a high oxygen brew will come off as too sweet. There is a recipe guideline that shows up to 10% carahell in a festival beer, but I doubt this is that. Also the caveat on the 10% is low oxygen, which lowers color ~20-30%, and does not make caramalts sickly sweet..

 

[johnwpowell]

I have no idea what Augustiner uses, nor will they ever tell you. Kara-extra-hell only means light cara, which would be anything, and most likely nothing we can get. How ever I do know a thing or two about German recipes, and I can tell you any % of caramalt in a high oxygen brew will come off as too sweet. There is a recipe guideline that shows up to 10% carahell in a festival beer, but I doubt this is that. Also the caveat on the 10% is low oxygen, which lowers color ~20-30%, and does not make caramalts sickly sweet..

Just to be clear we are talking low oxygen on the hot side?

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Yes, he is meaning low oxygen on the hot side (and through packaging actually).

 

[johnwpowell]

I have no idea what Augustiner uses, nor will they ever tell you. Kara-extra-hell only means light cara, which would be anything, and most likely nothing we can get. How ever I do know a thing or two about German recipes, and I can tell you any % of caramalt in a high oxygen brew will come off as too sweet. There is a recipe guideline that shows up to 10% carahell in a festival beer, but I doubt this is that. Also the caveat on the 10% is low oxygen, which lowers color ~20-30%, and does not make caramalts sickly sweet..

Thanks for sharing this information. Here’s an in depth article that reinforces what you said.
http://www.germanbrewing.net/docs/On_Brewing_Bavarian_Helles_v3.pdf

 

[Die_Beerery]

Thanks for sharing this information. Here’s an in depth article that reinforces what you said.
http://www.germanbrewing.net/docs/On_Brewing_Bavarian_Helles_v3.pdf

Yea, I was part of that group that wrote it.

 

[johnwpowell]

Yea, I was part of that group that wrote it.

It’s an honor to have you on this thread. Do you think we have a chance of cloning this at home? We can’t get the same grains, and the grains we can get are oxidized. I’m low oxygen from fermenter to packaging but not before.