Reflections On My 2nd All Grain Brew

[mrgrimm101]

I apologize for the long, rambling post, but I have a few reflections on Saturday's brew day..my 2nd all grain brew. Things definitely went smoother this time. I worried a lot less and just went with it. A few things I definitely need to work on:

-Hitting my mash temp. I do preheat the mash tun, but I think my strike water needs to be higher. I heated my strike water to about 168, but after I added it to the mash tun and then stirred in all the grains it got down to about 150F. This time I didn't try to fix it by adding more water..I just let it go, knowing I will end up with a dryer, thinner beer than I wanted. Granted it was still about 43F outside, I feel like it should hold temp better than that.

-Efficiency - I missed my OG again, but this time by only about 10 points. The low mash temp may offset any potential loss in alcohol..or maybe I misunderstand the relationship between a low mash temp and amount of fermentables. I'm sure I'm not sparging correctly, so maybe that has something to do with it.

-Remembering all the steps. I completely forgot the vorlauf; I transferred to the kettle and it was too late when I realized I forgot. I also forgot to use my screen when transferring from kettle to carboy, which let a lot of coldbreak through to my carboy.

-Shaving off time. It takes too long to heat up water to condition my cooler, then heat up the strike water, then the sparge, then the boil. Maybe I don't have a good grasp for my burner quite yet to get it to perform the best. I'm trying to multitask so I'm getting the next step ready while I'm waiting on the current step. I just know I can get much more efficient.

Any advice, words of wisdom, personal anecdotes, criticism, or general encouragement is greatly appreciated. Cheers everyone!

 

[mongoose33]

If you think that's a long, rambling post, you must think other things are larger than they really are.

I did my first all-grain on Saturday, and getting enough hot water is an issue. What I expect to do in the future is boil some in the kitchen as well. I also have a single-burner hotplate so I may boil some there, too. Then I can add cool water as necessary to get to the temp I need.

I'm going to monitor this thread, see what I can learn too!

 

[davidst]

You can use this to estimate how high your strike water needs to be:

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
or
http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

One trick I do is to pour my water into my mash tun, wait a few minutes and then make sure my water is where I want it before I bother with grains (either add cold or hot water until you are at the desired temperature). Just make sure to preheat your mash tun. I forgot to preheat mine last weekend and by the time I was ready to sparge, I discovered that my temperatures dropped 10 degrees in an hour. My bitter will be a little more dry than I was planning.

 

[seabrew8]

-Efficiency - I missed my OG again, but this time by only about 10 points. The low mash temp may offset any potential loss in alcohol..or maybe I misunderstand the relationship between a low mash temp and amount of fermentables. I'm sure I'm not sparging correctly, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Yes, you have a wort of say 1.040 OG it doesn't matter what mash temps you used - after the fact - for ABV measurement.

10 points is a big difference on the hydrometer IME.

 

[johngault007]

If you get your water from the HLT set right, you can preheat with a gallon or two straight from there. If I'm expecting to mash in with 7 gallons , I'll use the first gallon or two to , then after 5-10 minutes, add the grains and the rest of the water. I think doing it this way, I had to calculate for an additional 2-5 degrees.

 

[tooldudetool]

I heat my mash water to 10 degrees above what I want my strike temp to be, add the whole amount to my round cooler mash tun and let it sit. I check it every 5 minutes and slosh it around the top half of the tun with my plastic spoon. Usually in about ten minutes it has stabilized to my strike temp, then I add my grains, mix with my plastic mash paddle which fits in my cordless drill and cover it. I hit my temp every time with this method. It took me several brews to dial it in with my equipment, but now it works perfect. As far as heating water I have an outdoor propane burner. Very first thing I do is start heating the strike water as I get everything else ready. No down time. Then with about half an hour left in the mash I start heating my (batch) sparge water so its ready to go when the first runnings are done draining. As soon as the sparge water is in the mash tun I start heating the first runnings, and after vorlauf of my sparge I run the second runnings right into the kettle as its still heating. I use silicone tubing out of my mash tun so there are no concerns with melting the tubing in the hot kettle. By the time my second runnings have finished my wort is usually around 200 degrees and it only takes a few more minutes to get to a boil. Add a few drops of fermcap to prevent boilovers and I'm off to the races. Very little downtime waiting for anything to heat up. My all grain brewday is usually 4.5 hours including setup and cleanup... Although it took me quite a few brews to cut the time down to that. . Cheers!

 

[signpost]

-Hitting my mash temp.

-Efficiency - I missed my OG again, but this time by only about 10 points.

-Remembering all the steps. I completely forgot the vorlauf

-Shaving off time.

+1 to the advice from tooldudetool

Also, as far as hitting the mash temp, you might also be overestimating the temperature of the grains themselves. Especially if you are working outside.

Missed OG - This most likely has to do with your grain crush, but could also be from too little stirring during the mash. Whenever I stir the crap out of it 2 or 3 times during the mash, I get better efficiency. When I don't stir and just let it sit, I frequently miss my OG.

A combination of not stirring and not having the grain crushed enough could easily account for missing your OG by 10 points.

Remembering all of the steps? That will come with experience and repetition. Or not. I still forget stuff now and then and I've been doing all-grain for a couple years.

For shaving time off your brewday, tooldudetool's advice is pretty much exactly what I do. Although, I get the timing better on some brew days than on others. The amount of drinking going on tends to have an impact on that.

 

[unviewtiful]

I'll try to hit your concerns in order:

-As others have mentioned, try heating your strike water a few degrees higher than the mash calculators tell you and use that to preheat your cooler. Then stir or add cool water to get to the temperature required for your grain bill.

-Missing your OG usually just means you overestimated your efficiency in your calculations. This is something you'll learn over time. Adjust your calculations, measure your losses, and you'll eventually dial in your system. Always double check your temperatures when you measure gravity (if using a hydrometer), but I don't think that could be the sole reason for being 10 points off from your estimate.

-I've seen checklists floating around to help remember all the steps, but after a while it will become second nature. I've been brewing for a few years, but even still I sometimes forget small things (irish moss, gravity reading, etc). Regarding the cold break, it won't make a bit of difference if it makes it in your fermenter or not, it will settle out anyway.

-At first, it's more important to make sure you're doing everything the right way than try to race through it. But that's not to say there aren't places where you can save time. Measure/mill grains while your strike water is heating, clean the mash tun during the boil, measure out early boil additions during the mash, etc. The biggest time saver for me was getting a good chiller. What used to take 40 minutes now takes 10-15.

All in all, you're in good shape if you can recognize what you did better than last time, and what you need to improve upon for your next brew day.

 

[mrgrimm101]

Just a quick response to all the advice:

-I do preheat my mash tun, and I heat my strike water about 11 degrees higher than my desired mash temp. By the time I add the strike water and then add the grains and give it a good stir it drops below my desired mash temp. I feel like I'm already doing all of the recommendations here..Stirring the mash a few times in the hour seems like it may help with my missed OG problem, but would I not also lose heat that way?

-In my calculations I tried to figure for both 75% and 65%. I hit close to 65%. I guess I didn't really miss my OG, since I planned on a low efficiency anyway. I just figured it'd be higher if I got a higher efficiency this time.

-I will for sure find a checklist that works for me and use it until it becomes like second nature.

-One tip that I can for sure do is to start heating my kettle with the first runnings while I am still draining and/or sparging. I feel that I am doing things correctly and I'm not trying to rush through it. I fully enjoy brew days. There just seems to be lots of time that I'm waiting for water to heat up or something like that.

 

[HomebrewHandicapper]

I heat my mash water to 10 degrees above what I want my strike temp to be, add the whole amount to my round cooler mash tun and let it sit. I check it every 5 minutes and slosh it around the top half of the tun with my plastic spoon. Usually in about ten minutes it has stabilized to my strike temp, then I add my grains, mix with my plastic mash paddle which fits in my cordless drill and cover it. I hit my temp every time with this method. It took me several brews to dial it in with my equipment, but now it works perfect. As far as heating water I have an outdoor propane burner. Very first thing I do is start heating the strike water as I get everything else ready. No down time. Then with about half an hour left in the mash I start heating my (batch) sparge water so its ready to go when the first runnings are done draining. As soon as the sparge water is in the mash tun I start heating the first runnings, and after vorlauf of my sparge I run the second runnings right into the kettle as its still heating. I use silicone tubing out of my mash tun so there are no concerns with melting the tubing in the hot kettle. By the time my second runnings have finished my wort is usually around 200 degrees and it only takes a few more minutes to get to a boil. Add a few drops of fermcap to prevent boilovers and I'm off to the races. Very little downtime waiting for anything to heat up. My all grain brewday is usually 4.5 hours including setup and cleanup... Although it took me quite a few brews to cut the time down to that. . Cheers!

^This. Pretty much exactly my process. Must be a Ferndale, Wa thing. I know what you mean about waiting for water though. For my first few brews I always found that everytime I thought to myself "that should be plenty of time for it to heat up"....I should have started it 15+ minutes earlier :smack:. A lot of it just comes with experience.

 

[unviewtiful]

Just a quick response to all the advice:
There just seems to be lots of time that I'm waiting for water to heat up or something like that.

That right there is drinking time

 

[Yooper]

Just a quick response to all the advice:

-I do preheat my mash tun, and I heat my strike water about 11 degrees higher than my desired mash temp. By the time I add the strike water and then add the grains and give it a good stir it drops below my desired mash temp. I feel like I'm already doing all of the recommendations here..Stirring the mash a few times in the hour seems like it may help with my missed OG problem, but would I not also lose heat that way?

What some of us are saying is that we heat the water much higher than 11 degrees warmer. I add my strike water at 175-180 degree water to my cooler (when I use a cooler). The cooler "sucks" out a ton of heat right away.

When the water drops to 166 degrees or so (about 15 minutes), that is when I add my grain. By then, the cooler is preheated and the water has cooled to the correct strike temperature, so I'm not heating water and dumping it out- it all goes into the cooler.

I hope that makes sense. Since the cooler will suck out a lot more heat than you'd expect, preheating it with hotter water than you need (but not so hot that it warps your cooler) is important, and since it's my strike water anyway, there isn't more water to heat except for your sparge water.

 

[brewbama]

Don't forget to take the temp of the grain. Higher temp grain will require lower strike water temp. Lower temp grain will require higher strike water temp.

 

[Aristotelian]

-In my calculations I tried to figure for both 75% and 65%. I hit close to 65%. I guess I didn't really miss my OG, since I planned on a low efficiency anyway. I just figured it'd be higher if I got a higher efficiency this time.

I am confused. Did you miss your target gravity or your target efficiency? Your target gravity was 1.050 at 75% efficiency but you ended up at 1.040 with 65% efficiency?

As unviewtiful suggests, to me it is easier to adjust your calculations than to adjust your process. If you are comfortable with your process and you have already tried the obvious things to fix it, assume a conservative number for your efficiency and just live with it.

I am also getting about 65% but I am hitting my target consistently because that is what I expect. People say it's low but my neighbors chickens eat the spent grain anyway so it doesn't even go to waste.

 

[brewcat]

I don't preheat my round cooler mash tun. It makes more sense to just calculate for equipment loss. I calculate a six degree loss for my equipment. I then just plug the variables into a strike water temp calculator. I hit my mash temp everytime and it holds.

Get an average efficiency once you have your system dialed in. I don't get too hung up on missing or overshooting. I only use efficiency for recipe creation.

I have a saved document with my steps I print for every brewday. The only thing that changes is ingredients, temps and water volume.

My suggestion is to time your different steps. I know it takes me a half hour or so to get my strike and sparge water to temp. That let's me know when I need to be starting things (Good cooking habit too. Then things finish about the same time).

 

[mrgrimm101]

What some of us are saying is that we heat the water much higher than 11 degrees warmer. I add my strike water at 175-180 degree water to my cooler (when I use a cooler). The cooler "sucks" out a ton of heat right away.

When the water drops to 166 degrees or so (about 15 minutes), that is when I add my grain. By then, the cooler is preheated and the water has cooled to the correct strike temperature, so I'm not heating water and dumping it out- it all goes into the cooler.

I hope that makes sense. Since the cooler will suck out a lot more heat than you'd expect, preheating it with hotter water than you need (but not so hot that it warps your cooler) is important, and since it's my strike water anyway, there isn't more water to heat except for your sparge water.

Thank you this makes so much sense

 

[mrgrimm101]

I am confused. Did you miss your target gravity or your target efficiency? Your target gravity was 1.050 at 75% efficiency but you ended up at 1.040 with 65% efficiency?

As unviewtiful suggests, to me it is easier to adjust your calculations than to adjust your process. If you are comfortable with your process and you have already tried the obvious things to fix it, assume a conservative number for your efficiency and just live with it.

I am also getting about 65% but I am hitting my target consistently because that is what I expect. People say it's low but my neighbors chickens eat the spent grain anyway so it doesn't even go to waste.

When I have it all plugged into Beersmith, it gives a default efficiency of 75%, which according to the recipe is about 1.075. I changed it down to 65% (to be conservative) and it dropped my OG to about 1.065. It seemed weird to me too. I was just planning for the worst. Maybe I'm misreading something

 

[Aristotelian]

When I have it all plugged into Beersmith, it gives a default efficiency of 75%, which according to the recipe is about 1.075. I changed it down to 65% (to be conservative) and it dropped my OG to about 1.065. It seemed weird to me too. I was just planning for the worst. Maybe I'm misreading something

So if the recipe target is 1.075 at 75%, you enter your expected d efficiency of 65%. With the same ingredients that will.drop your gravity below target. If you want to be true to recipe, you need to bump up your grain bill to get back to 1.075.

 

[Redhawk96]

Overheating sparge water is a key, it is much easier to reduce the overall mash temp a couple of degrees than to raise it. I heat the strike water 15-18 degress over target, add to the cooler, let the coooler warm up a few minutes, then mash in.

I often end up 1-3 degrees over trarget temp, but I have cold water in a bucket (to be used later as sparge water), and I add small volumes to the mash to get the temp down from say 153 to 150. With vigorous stirring, this takes only a minute or two.

Mid-mash and pre-runoff stirring also helped me to increase my mash efficiencies by about 4-5%.

 

[mrgrimm101]

So if the recipe target is 1.075 at 75%, you enter your expected d efficiency of 65%. With the same ingredients that will.drop your gravity below target. If you want to be true to recipe, you need to bump up your grain bill to get back to 1.075.

I figured as much. I already bumped up the base grain from the original recipe. It's no big deal. I made sure if it was the worst case (which it was) that it'd still end up ok. It would have been win-win if the efficiency were higher, but I'm still ok with it where it was.

 

[mrgrimm101]

Mid-mash and pre-runoff stirring also helped me to increase my mash efficiencies by about 4-5%.

This is something I have not been doing that has been suggested a couple times. I assumed that if I opened the cooler during the mash i was letting heat escape, but it sounds like it's worth the risk.

 

[Aristotelian]

I figured as much. I already bumped up the base grain from the original recipe. It's no big deal. I made sure if it was the worst case (which it was) that it'd still end up ok. It would have been win-win if the efficiency were higher, but I'm still ok with it where it was.

I don't understand. If you adjusted your efficiency and grain bill, how did you miss your target gravity by 10 points?

 

[kombat]

Here are my tips.

• I preheat my mash tun, but I just use plain old hot water straight from the tap. I run off about 3 gallons into a Home Depot bucket and pour it into my mash tun, then close the lid. This is the very first thing I do on brew day (next is start heating strike water while milling grain). My hot tap water is around 125° F. That way, I can heat my strike water to pretty much exactly 10° F above my target mash temperature, and it always settles at just the right level.
• Cover your grain bed with aluminum foil, and punch some holes in it with your thermometer probe. The foil will help the grain bed hold its heat, rather than losing as much of it to the head space of the mash tun. The holes will allow you to recirculate or vorlauf without disturbing the grain bed.
• Begin heating your sparge water as soon as you close up your mash tun. I heat mine to 180° F. If I hit my temperature before the mash is finished, no big deal, I just kill the burner and leave it. 10 gallons of hot water has a huge thermal mass and isn't going to drop that much during the mash. Towards the end of the mash, I re-light the burner and heat the sparge water back up to 180 (it's only lost maybe 10 degrees during the mash, so this doesn't take long).
• Don't worry about break material getting into your fermenter. It's not a problem at all.

 

[signpost]

This is something I have not been doing that has been suggested a couple times. I assumed that if I opened the cooler during the mash i was letting heat escape, but it sounds like it's worth the risk.

Yes, you might lose a little heat while stirring, but the extra efficiency is worth it.

Also, you can adjust your mash temp to compensate for it a bit. I generally lose 2 or 3 degrees over the course of a mash. So what I do is start the mash 1 or 2 degrees higher than the recipe calls for. Then stir like crazy at the beginning of the mash and again about 15 minutes in. Each time I'll stir for a solid 60 seconds. That will generally get the temp down to what the recipe called for. Then I'll do another good stir about 10 to 15 minutes before the end of the mash. That will give the grain bed a chance to settle before you do the vorlauf and run off the wort.

At the end of that, the temp might be 1 or 2 degrees lower than intended, but it will have spent most of the mash time at the right temp.

 

[mrgrimm101]

This is all great advice, thank you everyone.