Reading the Hydrometer - Apple Wine

[calmingapple]

Hi everybody,

Just wanted to confirm that I am on the right track with my apple wine.

I am about 6 to 7 days into my primary fermentation. Today while I was de-gassing the apple wine, I took a very small taste test and was pleasantly surprised with how dry and appley it was. I honestly could have bottled it then and there.

I am hoping I can get some help assessing the gravity readings. I took an initial reading once I mixed my sugar in on day one and that number had an S.G. of 1.100 (after adding extra sugar to try and match a number found in a recipe). 1.100 is what I got after adding that sugar. I used cane sugar so it wasn't 100% dissolved by any means.

Today, 7 days in, the reading is 1.010.

Photo attached of reading.

Should I take one more reading in 7-8 days and then rack into secondary (also topping up with more apple juice at that time?)

Thanks everyone!

 

[Yooper]

No, rack to secondary now. Once you get below 1.020, ideally between 1.020 and 1.010, it's time for secondary.

If you top up with more juice, fermentation will start up again. Which means you will have to rack it again, which means you will have to top up again. It can be a vicious cycle.

If you don't have enough wine to minimize headspace, I'd suggest topping up with a commercial wine, like a very cheap pinot grigio, if you don't have any other homemade wine to do the job or a smaller vessel to rack to.

 

[calmingapple]

So I am already at the racking stage? Okay wow that was fast. Do you think the brief heatwave here played a role in a faster fermentation?

This makes me a tad nervous due to two factors:

--- No auto siphon to fit my one gal carboy, so I will have to "makeshift" something with plastic tubing (I'm sure this is when wine easily gets ruined?)
--- I will be left with substantial headspace. I only have Tree Top Apple Juice available for topping up.

I have k-sorbate and k-meta for stabilizing? Am I okay to proceed topping up with apple juice then?

Thanks for the help!

No, rack to secondary now. Once you get below 1.020, ideally between 1.020 and 1.010, it's time for secondary.

If you top up with more juice, fermentation will start up again. Which means you will have to rack it again, which means you will have to top up again. It can be a vicious cycle.

If you don't have enough wine to minimize headspace, I'd suggest topping up with a commercial wine, like a very cheap pinot grigio, if you don't have any other homemade wine to do the job or a smaller vessel to rack to.

 

[bernardsmith]

I would rack now but realize that racking at this point may really slow down the last phase of your fermentation as you are likely to rack your cider off the active yeast and so be left with few (hundreds of thousands) of yeast cells rather than millions. So it may take much longer to drop the gravity 10 points or more than it took to drop 30 or 40 points.

Unless you are happy with the level of sweetness now I would wait to stabilize until the gravity has dropped below 1.000. There are three secret ingredients to wine making. The first is patience. The second is patience and the third is ... patience. Whatever else you have done or used, if patience is lacking your cider, wine or mead will never be as good as it might be. And with patience whatever else is lacking your mead, wine or cider will be magnitudes better than you ever imagined it might be.

 

[Yooper]

I would rack now but realize that racking at this point may really slow down the last phase of your fermentation as you are likely to rack your cider off the active yeast and so be left with few (hundreds of thousands) of yeast cells rather than millions. So it may take much longer to drop the gravity 10 points or more than it took to drop 30 or 40 points

not at all- here are still hundreds of billions of yeast cells in suspension when the wine is at 1.010. Not thousands- billions!

Racking and airlocking is done now to protect the wine from oxygen. If you don't want to, that's fine, but it's not like you'll have more wine later for topping up. It is certainly NOT time for sorbate- that is done once the wine has been finished for at least 60 days, totally clear, and no longer dropping lees.

 

[calmingapple]

Hmmm I only have apple juice at this point - would I be better using water then? I am just guesstimating here but it is only about a hydrometer jar's amount of liquid that would be needed (as of *right now* but after racking I expect a bit more). Not sure what that would be in ounces.

So what do you guys think? Should I add filtered clean water or apple juice after racking?

Thanks again for your help!

not at all- here are still hundreds of billions of yeast cells in suspension when the wine is at 1.010. Not thousands- billions!

Racking and airlocking is done now to protect the wine from oxygen. If you don't want to, that's fine, but it's not like you'll have more wine later for topping up. It is certainly NOT time for sorbate- that is done once the wine has been finished for at least 60 days, totally clear, and no longer dropping lees.

 

[Yooper]

Hmmm I only have apple juice at this point - would I be better using water then? I am just guesstimating here but it is only about a hydrometer jar's amount of liquid that would be needed (as of *right now* but after racking I expect a bit more). Not sure what that would be in ounces.

So what do you guys think? Should I add filtered clean water or apple juice after racking?

Thanks again for your help!

Neither, since it's such a small amount. Next time you're in town, grab a bottle of cheap pinot grigio or some other fruity cheap white wine. That will keep the wine from being watered down, won't change the taste, and will not keep up the cycle of fermentation restarting each time you rack.

 

[Paps]

If you are worried about headspace, i've read that some people sanitise childrens marbles and add those into the carboy to take up space. That being said, i wouldn't bother using a secondary unless you plan on adding in something like cinnamon sticks. IMHO you're better with the `set it n forget it method` especially sinse you dont have the proper tools needed to rack to secondary. Why put yourself through the hassle and let it sit/age/condition until you get proper gear as funds permit.

 

[calmingapple]

Okay well I love that idea to be honest! Keeping it as is, where it is.

So set it and forget it? And I am good. That would be really great and easier to do till I get my mini siphon!

Thanks guys!

If you are worried about headspace, i've read that some people sanitise childrens marbles and add those into the carboy to take up space. That being said, i wouldn't bother using a secondary unless you plan on adding in something like cinnamon sticks. IMHO you're better with the `set it n forget it method` especially sinse you dont have the proper tools needed to rack to secondary. Why put yourself through the hassle and let it sit/age/condition until you get proper gear as funds permit.

 

[calmingapple]

Hi paps,

So have experience doing this, I take it? You don't think I will affect the flavor at all by allowing it to sit on the sediment like that?

I am thinking I will get my mini siphon in 2 to 2.5 weeks, possibly 3.

I would rather do it right (racking safely) than working with just plastic tubing which I am pretty sure I will contaminate somehow as I am a MAJOR klutz

Appreciate the guidance!

If you are worried about headspace, i've read that some people sanitise childrens marbles and add those into the carboy to take up space. That being said, i wouldn't bother using a secondary unless you plan on adding in something like cinnamon sticks. IMHO you're better with the `set it n forget it method` especially sinse you dont have the proper tools needed to rack to secondary. Why put yourself through the hassle and let it sit/age/condition until you get proper gear as funds permit.

 

[Paps]

I personally primary my ciders for no less than a month.
If i'm adding cinnamon sticks to secondary that too usually lasts 3-4 weeks,
sometimes longer if RL prevents me from toying with homebrew.
I will often use KC-super kleer just before racking to secondary
( i cannot speak highly enough about how well this product works on ciders)
You have nothing to worry about regarding off flavors from cider sitting on the yeast for easily up to 3 months. Hope this helps.

 

[podz]

I suspect your gravity is closer to 1.005 or even 1.000. A hydrometer reading is always high when the hydrometer is touching the side of the cylinder. The reason for that is because air bubbles are clinging to the bottom of the hydrometer and making it float lopsided. There is also one more problem: surface tension. You filled your cylinder too much; it should not be completely full like it is in the photo.

To take an accurate reading, pour some out of the hydrometer so you have at least 1cm of headspace. In addition, twirl your hydrometer rapidly (not free spin) several times to release the bubbles until it floats centered.

 

[WVMJ]

Racking is not a big deal nervous newbee. Just stick a hose in there and suck on the other end until it starts to flow and put it in your clean jug. You can top off with the same stuff you started with, if it was apple juice with some sugar recreate it and add it slowly to top off, you are far from done so at this point a little extra time fermenting isnt going to hurt. Not sure where Bernard got his numbers but you will have plenty of yeasts to get things done. And no, you germs on the end of the hose are not going to harm your wine, remember in the olden days people used their feet to crush grapes, toe jam and all. WVMJ

 

[podz]

I don't know if I'd go quite that far. I always wrap my sanitized hand around the end of the siphon hose and suck on my hand, not the hose, to get the siphon started. People generally clean their feet before stomping grapes, as well feet do not harbor bacteria on the same level that a mouth does.

 

[bernardsmith]

not at all- here are still hundreds of billions of yeast cells in suspension when the wine is at 1.010. Not thousands- billions!

Racking and airlocking is done now to protect the wine from oxygen. If you don't want to, that's fine, but it's not like you'll have more wine later for topping up. It is certainly NOT time for sorbate- that is done once the wine has been finished for at least 60 days, totally clear, and no longer dropping lees.

I guess my practice is to rack closer to 1.005 rather than when there is still about 25 percent of the residual sugar left to ferment (assuming the apple juice starts off with a gravity around 1.045). And if I assume that the accuracy and reliability of the hydrometer is as it typically is and if I assume the skill of the reader is as it often is, a nominal "1.010" can cover a wide range of actual sugar levels , all the more, if the ambient room temperature is 75, for example, and the hydrometer is calibrated for a reading at 60. then a reading of 1.010 will hide the fact that there is still considerably more sugar in the cider to be fermented than the reading would suggest) .

 

[Yooper]

I guess my practice is to rack closer to 1.005 rather than when there is still about 25 percent of the residual sugar left to ferment (assuming the apple juice starts off with a gravity around 1.045). And if I assume that the accuracy and reliability of the hydrometer is as it typically is and if I assume the skill of the reader is as it often is, a nominal "1.010" can cover a wide range of actual sugar levels , all the more, if the ambient room temperature is 75, for example, and the hydrometer is calibrated for a reading at 60. then a reading of 1.010 will hide the fact that there is still considerably more sugar in the cider to be fermented than the reading would suggest) .

Yes, of course. But at 1.010, you know it's not done. Racking is generally done when fermentation is still active, to ensure some c02 is still being produced to help protect the wine from oxidation. Since sulfites are not being used as an antioxidant in this case, racking before fermentation is finished is especially beneficial. It doesn't matter if it's going to finish at .990, .998, or even 1.005- fermentation will continue in secondary and it's good practice to rack at that point in winemaking.

There are many times fermentation proceeds faster than expected and the wine goes dry before racking and the wine is fine anyway, but it's not a bad idea to follow best practices to ensure that the wine is protected as much as possible.

 

[bernardsmith]

Yes, of course. But at 1.010, you know it's not done. Racking is generally done when fermentation is still active, to ensure some c02 is still being produced to help protect the wine from oxidation. Since sulfites are not being used as an antioxidant in this case, racking before fermentation is finished is especially beneficial. It doesn't matter if it's going to finish at .990, .998, or even 1.005- fermentation will continue in secondary and it's good practice to rack at that point in winemaking.

There are many times fermentation proceeds faster than expected and the wine goes dry before racking and the wine is fine anyway, but it's not a bad idea to follow best practices to ensure that the wine is protected as much as possible.

absolutely. No argument at all from me, and I would say always follow best practices but my question is whether it is better (best?) to rack at 1.010 or rack closer to 1.005. There should still be a great deal of CO2 being produced and expelled at 10 05 and there is significantly less residual sugar left to be fermented so that even if the racking removes - or more accurately leaves them behind (as I think it does*) a significant amount of the active yeast there is not a great deal of sugar remaining for the remaining yeast to convert.
* most people focus on the dead yeast that racking leaves behind but those making SP use the yeast harvested from the lees to ferment lemon juice and lemon juice is incredibly acidic and so presumably will destroy or damage large portions of the yeast colony and yet there would seem to be more than enough yeast in the lees from say, cider or from apricot or rhubarb wine rip through the sugar in skeeter pee.

 

[Yooper]

absolutely. No argument at all from me, and I would say always follow best practices but my question is whether it is better (best?) to rack at 1.010 or rack closer to 1.005. There should still be a great deal of CO2 being produced and expelled at 10 05 and there is significantly less residual sugar left to be fermented so that even if the racking removes - or more accurately leaves them behind (as I think it does*) a significant amount of the active yeast there is not a great deal of sugar remaining for the remaining yeast to convert.
* most people focus on the dead yeast that racking leaves behind but those making SP use the yeast harvested from the lees to ferment lemon juice and lemon juice is incredibly acidic and so presumably will destroy or damage large portions of the yeast colony and yet there would seem to be more than enough yeast in the lees from say, cider or from apricot or rhubarb wine rip through the sugar in skeeter pee.

The flocculated yeast isn't dead. Well, at least most of it isn't dead. It's dormant, but not dead. That's way it can be repitched into something like SP.

Still, taste those lees and see if that's a flavor that something delicate like apple wine can benefit from aging on, or in the case of something like aging sur lie, remember that those lees are stirred often. The pressure of the wine sitting on the flocculated yeast does cause some flavor impact. For two weeks, it's fine, but for longer I would make sure to rack.

When considering where a wine may stop, of course that is dependent on things like nutrients, the OG, and the yeast strain. In most cases, vintners will make wines that go from 1.085-1.100 and that would finish at .990 but there are many exceptions of course. Some dessert wines would stop at 1.040, as an example. A good rule of thumb is that once fermentation slows, the wine would be airlocked at that point, and in general a regular table wine would slow a bit at under 1.020 (but not always!).

 

[bernardsmith]

I can completely see that under commercial conditions the weight and pressure of a column of wine or cider or mead sitting on lees could speed up the autolysis and introduce off flavors, but home wine makers making 1-5 gallons of wine in a carboy with a diameter of about 12 -18 inches and column of about - what? 1-3 feet are surely not pressing a great deal of weight on the yeast. The yeast are certainly going to break down and will expel all kinds of chemicals into the wine but in the real world of the home winemaker - when yeast are properly hydrated and properly fed how often does it happen that within two or three months sur lie autolysis really damages the wine? (I say that knowing that my mead making friends argue that certain yeasts (71B, for example) are notorious for breaking down even after a couple of weeks

 

[calmingapple]

Thanks for your help here Podz! I realize I did the hydro reading wrong and I will get the right reading here in a bit and post my new updated reading.

I suspect your gravity is closer to 1.005 or even 1.000. A hydrometer reading is always high when the hydrometer is touching the side of the cylinder. The reason for that is because air bubbles are clinging to the bottom of the hydrometer and making it float lopsided. There is also one more problem: surface tension. You filled your cylinder too much; it should not be completely full like it is in the photo.

To take an accurate reading, pour some out of the hydrometer so you have at least 1cm of headspace. In addition, twirl your hydrometer rapidly (not free spin) several times to release the bubbles until it floats centered.

 

[calmingapple]

I want to stress just how helpful you guys have been for me during this first batch of Apple Wine.
But after re-reading all of the comments here... I am sort of at a stand still due to my indecisiveness.

I realize I have several options according to advice given. My apologies for all this mulling it over a million times... I like to think each avenue through really well to assess the pros and cons. I don't know why but I am hinging a lot on this first batch. Probably because some people in my family are just convinced you can't make decent wine at home (I'll show 'em!):

-- The idea of marbles irks me a bit. My only choice for marbles are marbles from the dollar store and made in China. So a question that comes to mind is: can I use oranges for reducing headspace at this point? Or is that just going to kick start fermentation again?
-- I can certainly run out an buy cheap wine but I am a bit stubborn and want to use whatever is "lying around". Right now apple juice is in abundance over here.
-- Lastly, I have no problem racking the wine as per bernard's suggestion of wrapping my sanitized hand around the tube and sucking. ***However I have no proper wand right now. My siphon equipment will not go into the one gallon carboy, period. That includes the little nozzle on the end. I just have tubing right now.

Finally, I am going to go take a proper S.G. reading as suggested by the other poster and be back with the number.

Thanks again to ALL of you for your help!

P.S. Just a side question: Should I save my lees after racking for a batch of apple wine I was hoping to start this coming week? Can it be placed in a clean sealed jar until use???

The flocculated yeast isn't dead. Well, at least most of it isn't dead. It's dormant, but not dead. That's way it can be repitched into something like SP.

Still, taste those lees and see if that's a flavor that something delicate like apple wine can benefit from aging on, or in the case of something like aging sur lie, remember that those lees are stirred often. The pressure of the wine sitting on the flocculated yeast does cause some flavor impact. For two weeks, it's fine, but for longer I would make sure to rack.

When considering where a wine may stop, of course that is dependent on things like nutrients, the OG, and the yeast strain. In most cases, vintners will make wines that go from 1.085-1.100 and that would finish at .990 but there are many exceptions of course. Some dessert wines would stop at 1.040, as an example. A good rule of thumb is that once fermentation slows, the wine would be airlocked at that point, and in general a regular table wine would slow a bit at under 1.020 (but not always!).

 

[calmingapple]

P.S. I don't mind things re-starting again, fermentation wise, I realize it is a good learning experience right now. I don't mind "baby sitting" as it were.

I was even thinking I should start a new gallon batch of either Apfelwein or the apple wine, since i have everything I need to do so.

 

[calmingapple]

Hi guys,

I realize this thread might already be dead but here goes... I am attaching a proper photo of the SG reading of my apple wine.

Just curious if anyone can tell me if I am heading in the right direction here.

Small taste test results = strong flavor of alcohol (my hunch is that if going on taste alone it is 11% alcohol, maybe 12), very little apple flavor (almost wish there was more), and getting quite dry. I don't feel the need to sweeten it, but then again, I like dry wine with next to no sweetness.

I gather the best thing to do is for me to rack this and remove all headspace in carboy?

 

[podz]

That's the nature of apple juice: ferment it above 9% ABV or so and it loses the taste. Similar thing doesn't happen, for example, with raspberries.

Racking with a silicone hose is perfectly fine, that's what I always use. I own a racking cane but I hate it and never use it.

Yep, rack and eliminate the headspace if you are going to be aging it for any amount of time.

 

[calmingapple]

Thanks for the reply podz. You think I'd be okay to add a bit of apple juice after racking to my secondary carboy? It could use a touch of sweetness.

Good to hear I will be fine racking with only the tubing today. So, will this be drinkable in about a month's time? Will the boozy taste mellow enough by then?

That's the nature of apple juice: ferment it above 9% ABV or so and it loses the taste. Similar thing doesn't happen, for example, with raspberries.

Racking with a silicone hose is perfectly fine, that's what I always use. I own a racking cane but I hate it and never use it.

Yep, rack and eliminate the headspace if you are going to be aging it for any amount of time.

 

[podz]

Thanks for the reply podz. You think I'd be okay to add a bit of apple juice after racking to my secondary carboy? It could use a touch of sweetness.

Good to hear I will be fine racking with only the tubing today. So, will this be drinkable in about a month's time? Will the boozy taste mellow enough by then?

The higher the alcohol, the longer time it needs to age.

If you want sweet, then let it sit for a long time (that is 6-7 months or more) before adding juice so the yeast has time to die. You can try to kill the yeast with campden tablets, but it doesn't really work - just stops them from reproducing. Other option is to pasteurise and then backsweeten - that will kill the yeast.

 

[calmingapple]

My apologies, I actually don't want it sweet. I really am just lazy and want to top up the carboy with apple juice after racking for first time. When I said sweet, I was thinking in my head "a cup of apple juice will sweeten it a WEE bit".

I really don't know what I am doing, kinda learning as I go but I am really happy things are progressing without spoilage yet

The higher the alcohol, the longer time it needs to age.

If you want sweet, then let it sit for a long time (that is 6-7 months or more) before adding juice so the yeast has time to die. You can try to kill the yeast with campden tablets, but it doesn't really work - just stops them from reproducing. Other option is to pasteurise and then backsweeten - that will kill the yeast.

 

[WVMJ]

Marbleking.com is a USA marble maker, no LEAD in their marbles. So if you add more apple juice it will ferment that out, but as you say you think its to hot now just dont supplement the juice with any sugar and even though it will ferment out it will actually decrease the concentration of alcohol a little. Whats wrong with just using a piece of tubing to rack with without all the autosiphon stuff, just suck on the end and put it in another jug, you can even tie the end of the tube to a chopstick or something nonmetal to hold it better near the bottom. Your nervousness might make your yeast a bit jumpy, you dont want jumpy yeast, you want calm yeast with a big appetite concentrating on eating. WVMJ

 

[calmingapple]

Just a quick update. I racked for the first time just now and it went okay for having just tubing and a mouth hhah (mouthwash ahead of time, of course). And it transferred nicely and left a thick layer of sediment behind.

Sadly my crystal strip thermometer ripped in half but ah well. Was nice while I had it.

I added just under a cup of apple juice to remove headspace (I will need a better option in the future, as Yooper said, such as a cheap white wine).

I calculate (Original Gravity – Final Gravity) X 131 = 13% ABV

Tastes good but boozy. I think my dad will love it! ;-)

Cheers everyone!

 

[podz]

Sadly my crystal strip thermometer ripped in half but ah well. Was nice while I had it.

Homebrew shops just love pushing those gadgets to newbies! In the end, they are only useful if you happen to have a serious temperature control setup.