Beerswimmer
Well-Known Member
What is wayyy too sour?
A question of perception,I guessWhat is wayyy too sour?
I had read (not sure where or how reputable it was) to bring the temp up to 180F to ensure pasturization as the grain in the mash could provide pockets of cooler wort that do not get pasturized.
Exactly. The wort gets already pasteurised during the mash, only if you have very poor sanitation practice (I had that once, now have a wild brett beer fermenting since 4 months, lesson learned and wild brett beer. Awesome!) during mashout and transfer into the fermenter you would run into troubles. Otherwise you should be fine.Not reputable.
You can look up "pasteurization time temperature table" on google and get back lots of results. At 145F, the lower end of feasible mash temps, it takes less than 4 minutes to kill sufficient micro organisms in beef to make it safe to eat. Irrelevant of sparging/sparge temps, if you've failed to pasteurize your wort during mash then you've already done something wrong.
Hi All, I started this thread a long time ago, and I love that it's still going! In wanted to pass along that Basic Brewing Radio has a new ep dated March 1, 2018 where they compared 3 no boil pale ales. Well worth the listen.
You are no old dog with comments like this. It reminds me of a story with my old golfing partner. He used to refer to people we played with as the old man. I asked him once, I said, you're way older than that guy. He said yeah but that's an old guy, im not. And he was right.You guys are making it hard for this old dog who has been brewing basically the same way for the last 20 years to admit that maybe things can be done differently.
Might have to give it a go.
/cheers
Nice One! Don't forget to tell us about the resultHi, I recently made my first no boil, no chill brew, a belgian dubbel. It was a definite time saver, I think it will be my go-to technique with most ales and darks. It's fermenting atm, should be interesting.
Thanks for all the thread comments on this, really found it useful and informative, cheers!
Not reputable.
You can look up "pasteurization time temperature table" on google and get back lots of results. At 145F, the lower end of feasible mash temps, it takes less than 4 minutes to kill sufficient micro organisms in beef to make it safe to eat. Irrelevant of sparging/sparge temps, if you've failed to pasteurize your wort during mash then you've already done something wrong.
If this is the case mashing at 145 F for 60 mins and then sparging with 170 for 30 or so should, and then the hops, ph and good sanitation would be adequate. I would go straight from MT into the Fermenter and chill it there. One less step = one less possible infection site.The recommended pasteurization for beer is 145 for 15 minutes (15 PU). Most beer spoilers are killed at this temp, and most of the beer volatiles are maintained. 30 PU is recommended for completely killing, according to one QC study. But this is for a finished beer where most organisms are dead from the low pH, hops, ethanol, and CO2. When talking about wort that is exposed to an enormous range of microflora and has no inhibitors other than heat, 145F is not enough to guarantee pasteurization. I am sure some people get away with it, but anecdotally people have had greater rates of success when pasteurizing at 180F+. On the MTF wiki we recommend reaching boiling temperatures, which produces steam and (hopefully) sanitizes the sides of the boil kettle and the lid.
Thanks for your contribution Dan. For my knowledge, what's your relationship with MtF?The recommended pasteurization for beer is 145 for 15 minutes (15 PU). Most beer spoilers are killed at this temp, and most of the beer volatiles are maintained. 30 PU is recommended for completely killing, according to one QC study. But this is for a finished beer where most organisms are dead from the low pH, hops, ethanol, and CO2. When talking about wort that is exposed to an enormous range of microflora and has no inhibitors other than heat, 145F is not enough to guarantee pasteurization. I am sure some people get away with it, but anecdotally people have had greater rates of success when pasteurizing at 180F+. On the MTF wiki we recommend reaching boiling temperatures, which produces steam and (hopefully) sanitizes the sides of the boil kettle and the lid.
I'm not trying to argue about anything but raising the temp seems like, if nothing else, a seat belt. If you have lacto or others show up in 1 of every 5 batches, or even less; how much time are you saving after dumping a batch and having to super clean equipment. Not to mention $$$. I mean Jesus, raise the wort temp another 40-50°.
Cheers
Thanks for your contribution Dan. For my knowledge, what's your relationship with MtF?
That's a real good write up on dms on the wiki. Cheers.I'm a moderator in the FB group, and I write/wrote most of the MTF Wiki, including the page on Wort Souring and Dimethyl Sulfide. I also am a co-host on our new podcast. I agree with your assessment for the most part, btw. I would say that reaching boiling is the best practice to avoid contamination, although you can get away with it at lower temperatures (less so below 180F). I don't think that DMS is much of an issue if the wort is not boiled because SMM conversion to DMS requires time, heat, and a closed system. If you boil for 10-15 minutes, you might be more prone to getting DMS, but even then most of the DMS that is formed will probably boil off.
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Dimethyl_Sulfide
Good question. I actually don't know. I tried it once and had the feeling that the yeast compacted a bit better. But I do not have a real clue.Do gelatin can clear beer on room temperature?
Yes, that's true. I was never interested in removing chill haze, I only wanted it to drop out the yeast.It seems to have a partial effect on yeast, but the protein, which is most interesting to me, does not work because no clusters of protein without cooling are produced.
I am pretty sure that this would work, but it wouldn't be a raw ale as the extract was boiled when manufactured.Have we discussed extract? Obviously it needs no boil it was boiled at manufacturing. Here is what i am thinking......
Start water 5.6g add steeping grains, pull steeping grains at 165, squeeze, add dme, mix and dump in fermenter at 170. Throw hops in to calculator, shut lid and pitch yeast later. Seems so simple.
The more i thik of it, just sounds so great. Replace base grain with dme. Use specialty mini mash and flavor later with rasberrys, oak, bourbon, cherries, grahm crackers whatever.
Yep, thats why i have never used it. I saw 50 lbs for 130 the other day though. Would be so easy, maybe time for another raw ale.
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