Ran into the anti-extract sentiment last night...

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Calypso

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I was hanging out with some friends last night and brought along my IPA. It was very well received, and I was stoked. Then my friend Jack gave some to this other guy he knows that homebrews. He tried it and shrugged and said "is this extract?" I said yeah, and I'd welcome feedback. His response? "I'll give you feedback when you make a real beer."

Wow. Everyone else was shocked by his reaction. I mean, it's not like I opened a package labeled "beer", mixed it with water, and bottled it. I chose the amounts, specialty grains, hops and hop schedule, yeast, etc. Sheesh. I know it's not a contest, but I did feel better later when Jack told me it was better than any of the beers he has tried from the other guy.
 
Calypso said:
I was hanging out with some friends last night and brought along my IPA. It was very well received, and I was stoked. Then my friend Jack gave some to this other guy he knows that homebrews. He tried it and shrugged and said "is this extract?" I said yeah, and I'd welcome feedback. His response? "I'll give you feedback when you make a real beer."

Wow. Everyone else was shocked by his reaction. I mean, it's not like I opened a package labeled "beer", mixed it with water, and bottled it. I chose the amounts, specialty grains, hops and hop schedule, yeast, etc. Sheesh. I know it's not a contest, but I did feel better later when Jack told me it was better than any of the beers he has tried from the other guy.
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Wow, what an idiot. Apparently, he thinks he is holier than thou since he brews all-grain. At least now you know you don't want to be his friend haha.
 
Talk about preconceived notions!? He might not have gotten good results from AE & feels it can't be done by anyone? It would've been cool to compare his & yours.
 
Yeah, I don't think I'll be inclined to share any more beer with him, extract or otherwise.
 
Wow, maybe you hurt his feelings by making a better extract beer than he does all grain and he got defensive? Actually, an extract beer is what made me fix my process. I started on extract and made mediocre beers. I moved to all grain because I thought that is how you made better beer, but that isn't what I found. I was getting very inconsistent results with all grain brewing too. I was talking to the LHBS owner about this problem and she gave me one of her beers to try. It was an extract IPA and it was crazy good and way better than anything I was making. That's when I really started focusing on the high points like temp control and pitching rates. As long as your extract is fresh it is the process that really matters.

Anyway, as was already said, as long as you like your beer then that's what really matters. If some stuck up person doesn't like it then that is their problem.
 
I think I would have:
1. Asked him how did he start; Extract or AG?
2. Asked him for samples of his "real beer".
3. Asked to leave until he gets a real life.
 
Yeah I've read a lot of stuff on this forum from folks who seem to think all-grain is the way to go. It very well could be. However from what I read it takes twice as much time to brew. I'm sorry but I just don't want to spend 6-8 hours brewing beer. Extract for me is 3 or less including cleanup time. Maybe I'm wrong that it doesn't take that long but the extract kits I've done taste great!
 
LLBeanJ said:
Seems like there's one in every crowd. If your brew is good, that's all that matters.
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True, doesn't matter what's involved. All you can do is look them in the eye for a moment, not respond, and move the conversation to some one else. Leave them standing there for the dick they are.

Edited: :mad: The husband of my favorite sister-in-law gives me lots of opportunities to practice the technique.
 
If you asked him enough questions, my bet is that you would have found out he doesn't know dick.
 
Yeah, the process matters a lot to make great beer. Since I started adding the LME at the end of the boil, make starters and manage fermenting temperature appropriately, I make extract beers just as good as all-grain.

One of my two best beers ever was made with extract, the other was all-grain. I still make great beer with extract from time to time when I need a shorter brew day.
 
Sadly, it seems there's one in every crowd... I recently gave a presentation on homebrewing at the local public library, and when I covered the basic "types" of homebrewing, I was VERY careful to make it clear that no one method was superior to another. Sure, using all grain might give you a little more control over your overall grist but that doesn't necessarily lead to better beer, and it sure as heck doesn't make the difference between "real" and "pretend" beer.

It does seem that many of us, at around the same time we transition from extract to all grain, make other changes to our process - some of us start using starters and playing around with proper pitching rates, some of us play with aeration or oxygenation of our wort, some of us get into temp control of our fermentation, some of us get into some combination of those or any number of other things... But we wind up making the assumption that it was the grains that made the change, not these other, far more impactful, elements of the process.

And to the OP's point about it not being a contest or anything - there have been plenty of extract brewers who have done quite well in competitions with extract brews. Probably folks who understood perfectly well that a well crafted recipe, plus all those other factors, can make for a superior product. Nothing at all wrong with extract brews in competition, unless for some reason the competition expressly forbids them.
 
brewprint said:
Yeah I've read a lot of stuff on this forum from folks who seem to think all-grain is the way to go. It very well could be. However from what I read it takes twice as much time to brew. I'm sorry but I just don't want to spend 6-8 hours brewing beer. Extract for me is 3 or less including cleanup time. Maybe I'm wrong that it doesn't take that long but the extract kits I've done taste great!
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Not sure where you read twice as long, it takes me a 90 minute mash (60 minutes is normal) and 60 minute boil. Takes me about 15 minutes to haul everything from the garage to out back. Between the mash and boil probably 10-15 minutes getting to temp and cleaning the Tun. After the boil I'll whirlpool for 15 or so, then chill (5 minutes), pitch, and clean everything (30-40 minutes).

I typically expect 3-1/2 to 4 hours for brew day, but a good portion of it is downtime and hauling my equipment from the garage to the back patio! Luckily someone told me it's illegal to brew without drinking beer, so it doesn't seem like work all that much :)

6-8 hours seems ridiculous, even if you have tons of equipment to haul around. I've never done extract, but from what I gather you still have to do a partial mash / steep with the specialty grains, so how does this save a ton of time? I was talking to the head-brewer at a small brewery in detroit at a tasting a few weeks ago, and he agreed that it really isn't that much more work than extract , that is assuming you're doing more than just extract and hops.

All that said, I don't have a problem with extract, I got interested in brewing because I like to cook from whole ingredients, so for me it was a natural progression into all-grain. I already knew very little about brewing :) Give me a good beer (extract or not) and I'll be a happy person.
 
Should have gave him the line

"Were you born an asshat, or did your mom raise you that way?"

You can make great beer with extract. The only downsides are cost and limited options.
 
Jeffries55 said:
Not sure where you read twice as long, it takes me a 90 minute mash (60 minutes is normal) and 60 minute boil. Takes me about 15 minutes to haul everything from the garage to out back. Between the mash and boil probably 10-15 minutes getting to temp and cleaning the Tun. After the boil I'll whirlpool for 15 or so, then chill (5 minutes), pitch, and clean everything (30-40 minutes).

I typically expect 3-1/2 to 4 hours for brew day, but a good portion of it is downtime and hauling my equipment from the garage to the back patio! Luckily someone told me it's illegal to brew without drinking beer, so it doesn't seem like work all that much :)

6-8 hours seems ridiculous, even if you have tons of equipment to haul around. I've never done extract, but from what I gather you still have to do a partial mash / steep with the specialty grains, so how does this save a ton of time? I was talking to the head-brewer at a small brewery in detroit at a tasting a few weeks ago, and he agreed that it really isn't that much more work than extract , that is assuming you're doing more than just extract and hops.

All that said, I don't have a problem with extract, I got interested in brewing because I like to cook from whole ingredients, so for me it was a natural progression into all-grain. I already knew very little about brewing :) Give me a good beer (extract or not) and I'll be a happy person.
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I'm pretty sure that I read that on this forum.

It sounds like it's about an hour longer according to what you're saying...which isn't bad.

I didn't realize that steeping grains was considered partial mash?
 
Just throwing this out there, and it's not for OP -who isn't doing this, but a couple of you are slipping into a victim mentality.

I all grain, and I keg. Is it because I want to be a cool kid, or do I all grain because I'm a control freak and keg because I'm too lazy to bottle?

This dude is a prick. He's one guy who happens to be an AG brewer (assumedly) but he hardly speaks for all of us.

OP, this is honest feedback. Sometimes extract can be tasted. Either it doesn't attenuate all the way out, or the extract itself is old/low quality. Ask yourself how he knew it was extract. If the answer is: he just knew and wanted to be a dick; then write him off. If the answer is: He tasted it; start trying to figure out why/how he tasted it.

Edit: upon rereading, I don't want UnionDr to think I was saying he's playing the victim (since he said the "cool kid" thing). In fact UnionDr...I agree whole heartedly with what you said in that post:
I brew what I want & how I want at my own pace.:mug:
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Yeah... with him asking "is this an extract", I really wonder what he would have said if you said no to him. Did he "taste the extract", or did he want to know before forming an opinion of it.

Elitism sucks, but gladly most homebrewers are awesome, and realize that there are reasons to use extract other than it being a beginner thing. I've already seen a number of people post on these forums who do AG, but after a few years of it, still go back to extract when they want a shorter and easier brew day. They are different ways to reach the same goal, though there are different pros and cons with the two of them. As someone else already said, the better results from AG are often because it's more experience brewers doing it, so they have temperature control and pitch the right amount of yeast, and have years of experience to help them out...
 
What a ******.

I respect all brewers. I have tasted some fantastic extract brews and have tasted some really poor AG brews. It is about the process. If an extract brewer has a good recipe, uses fresh ingredients , aerates well, pitches the proper amount of healthy yeast and controls fermentation temps, they can make a top notch brew. If an AG brewer does not do these thing they can make junk.

Sure there are brews that need to be made by AG because they just cannot be made with extract, but if it is a brew that can be made with extract then it can be very good.
 
FYI, since I went 'ALL GRAIN', I haven't brewed a good batch yet! This was something my LBS was trying to tell me too! He has many dozens of trophies in his shop, and says not one was an all grain brew!
 
Calypso said:
I was hanging out with some friends last night and brought along my IPA. It was very well received, and I was stoked. Then my friend Jack gave some to this other guy he knows that homebrews. He tried it and shrugged and said "is this extract?" I said yeah, and I'd welcome feedback. His response? "I'll give you feedback when you make a real beer."

Wow. Everyone else was shocked by his reaction. I mean, it's not like I opened a package labeled "beer", mixed it with water, and bottled it. I chose the amounts, specialty grains, hops and hop schedule, yeast, etc. Sheesh. I know it's not a contest, but I did feel better later when Jack told me it was better than any of the beers he has tried from the other guy.
Click to expand...

I think a better answer to his question would have been, "you tell me".

I guess asshat is unaware of all the extract brewers who have won NHC categories?
 
Flboy said:
FYI, since I went 'ALL GRAIN', I haven't brewed a good batch yet! This was something my LBS was trying to tell me too! He has many dozens of trophies in his shop, and says not one was an all grain brew!
Click to expand...

Haha yeah I kind of felt that way my first couple of AG batches, until I got the hang of it.

AG does not inherently make a "better" product than Extract; it just provides more flexibility (but also more margin for error).

Ultimately I'm glad I made the jump to AG, but I still do make extract brews from time to time when I can't devote an entire afternoon to brewing.

If you want "better" beer, focus on temp control, yeast pitching rates, etc, and don't worry so much about AG vs extract elitist garbage.

I do have to agree with jbaysurfer, though, that *sometimes* extract can be tasted. Particularly, I have tasted old or scorched LME in beer before. But if you're using fresh ingredients and your process is sound, I think extract can be every bit as good as AG beer; you're just more limited in your variety choices a bit.
 
730__26b39d3bb54f5551eb7197b883c8ab4a.jpg
 
Afterwards, I thought about how it would have gone down if, when he asked if it was an extract beer, I had said no. But at the time, I didn't know he was a raging ass-clown and I honestly wanted feedback. And I have no way of knowing if he could tell it was extract, or if he wanted to know so he could dismiss it. I used Briess DME, which I think is pretty well-regarded extract.
 
I've been brewing 20 years and not once have I criticized anyone's beer. I have pointed out defects and how to fix them but even if it was horrible I never say anything disparaging, I keep it positive and offer to help.
 
I brew both extract, steeping and mini mash, and all grain. BIAB and batch sparged 3 vessel. I honestly cannot tell the difference. I really doubt the dickhead could either. I think he guessed.

I do prefer to brew all grain in my 3 vessel system. Extract is a hot, sticky PITA. and BIAB is a hot, heavy, sticky, messy PITA. But I will still do them when it fits my needs.
 
Dude is definitely a ******... but that's the world. Lots of *****es around. Nothing wrong with extract. I brew all grain now because I like the process and the control, but good beer can be made from extract. Don't sweat it.
 
I have tasted the "extract flavor" in my beers as well as others, but my reaction wouldn't be what he did. I might ask questions to see how you handled the yeast and DME to see if there was a trick or tip I could offer to improve your process, eventhough I'm better at drinking homebrew than making it:mug:. You're always going to find a jerk. Even if your beer was better than every commercial example ever, people are still going to act elite.

PS I do All Grain and keg, I do AG because I feel more involved in the process than I do when I make extract. I keg because I'm way too lazy to bottle and I had a kegerator before I started homebrewing.
 
Calypso said:
I was hanging out with some friends last night and brought along my IPA. It was very well received, and I was stoked. Then my friend Jack gave some to this other guy he knows that homebrews. He tried it and shrugged and said "is this extract?" I said yeah, and I'd welcome feedback. His response? "I'll give you feedback when you make a real beer."

Wow. Everyone else was shocked by his reaction. I mean, it's not like I opened a package labeled "beer", mixed it with water, and bottled it. I chose the amounts, specialty grains, hops and hop schedule, yeast, etc. Sheesh. I know it's not a contest, but I did feel better later when Jack told me it was better than any of the beers he has tried from the other guy.
Click to expand...

What a jagoff. He's probably trying to put you down so he can feel better about his own crappy beers.
 

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