Racking onto Yeast Cake...

[ImNoExpert]

So I've read some things on HBT that get me worried my next step might be a bad idea.

I brewed a 1.070 porter last weekend with 1056 and was planning to rack a 1.1+ barleywine onto the yeast cake in a couple of weeks. I still have much of the cold break and some hop bits from the hop pellets. I was considering just putting the BW onto the yeast cake, trub and all. But now i'm concerned that:

A. I should wash the yeast; and
2. I might be over pitching.

Should I change my plan, wash some yeast and pitch a sizable portion or RDWHAHB? ANy concerns with the additional trub or hop gunk if I just do it?

Help me HBT, you're my only hope!

 

[derbycitybrewer]

IMO I think you would be fine but I'm not 100% on this. I mean if you washed it if course it would be better but I've heard people brewing like this for barley wines all the time. I would say go for it.

 

[40watt]

I would never rack onto the cake.

Washing is easy. You probably only need half of that yeast. You definitely need none of that trub.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

More that 70% of the folks disagree with me when I say this, but...just do it. This is one time to use a secondary, though. Krausen falls, send it to secondary. That trub will never be an issue and your yeast are still highly active.

That being said, if you are asking, you are worried. If you are worried before-hand you will be worried no matter how many people tell you to go for it. Why not just wash the yeast and in the process lose at least half the yeast...it will settle your mind.

 

[40watt]

It's a Barleywine. It's going to take a while to hit terminal gravity. Are you using a highly flocculant yeast? If you rack to secondary before it's done are you going to be yet another dude asking why your barleywine stalled when you racked of the yeast too damn soon?

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

 

[BradleyBrew]

Wash your yeast, use a fresh fermenter. Your beer, taste buds, and buddies will thank you for it. Barleywines are waaaaaayyyy to time consuming and $$$. I think dumping onto a cake is just the lazy way out. I've done both and would never pitch onto a entire cake in a "used" fermenter again. YMMV

 

[BigFloyd]

What was the ABV of your 1.070 porter? If it was over 6.0%, the folks at White Labs suggest not reusing the yeast out of that batch.

Perhaps you could brew a lower gravity beer with careful attention to leaving as much break material and hop junk in the kettle as possible, then use the cake from that for your barleywine.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Thanks all. I feel like those advocating to "just do it" and pitch on the old cake might be right but it is better to be safe than sorry with my annual barley wine. I think I'll try washing (something I've never done before) and pitching a seizable portion of the cleaned yeast.

Thanks again!

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

Washing yeast is a completely unnecessary step. It is also an infection vector because beer is significantly more hostile to bacteria than boiled water. Boiling does not kill bateria spores (one must autoclave water to render it absolutely sterile), and most water supplies have a significantly higher pH than beer.

I never wash my cropped yeast. I just swirl the solids back into suspension (one needs to leave enough liquid behind to be able to perform this step), wait a few minutes for the heaviest fractions to settle out of solution, and decant the fluid into a sanitized Erlenmeyer flask (I also "top crop" yeast). One needs to remember to wipe any surface with which the culture will come in contact with grain alcohol or 91% isopropyl alcohol before pouring to keep from picking up house microflora during the transfer.

 

[grndslm]

We're having a good discussion about pitching onto yeast cakes -vs- yeast rinsing/washing over here --> https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/why-not-pitch-your-yeast-cake-166221/index42.html#post5511591

If pitching rate is extremely important to you, then I don't see how you couldn't rinse the yeast to separate it form the trub. It will take at least a day to get a general idea of how much yeast you have collected, 3 days for an even better idea, and a week or so if you REALLY want to rinse the "old liquid" (i.e. - beer) off from the last batch. I believe that dumping that liquid off before the 1 week point will have you removing the least flocculant yeast, which you should want to keep around for as many generations as possible.

 

[eastoak]

if the porter was not infected then just go ahead and reuse the yeast, why wash it? to get rid of trub? why? after you wash it will it be as free of infection as it was when you racked the porter off? yeah, i don't know either.

 

[40watt]

Haha. Why not?

I'll tell you why I won't do it.

I've never experienced off flavors from leaving a beer sitting on yeast even up to six to eight months.

On the other hand, the flavors put off by those old soggy hop pellets are NO BUENO!

Harsh, stale, vegital nastiness. That's not going into my beer.

Also, I don't wish to overpitch anymore than I want to underpitch.

 

[eastoak]

Haha. Why not?

I'll tell you why I won't do it.

I've never experienced off flavors from leaving a beer sitting on yeast even up to six to eight months.

On the other hand, the flavors put off by those old soggy hop pellets are NO BUENO!

Harsh, stale, vegital nastiness. That's not going into my beer.

Also, I don't wish to overpitch anymore than I want to underpitch.

when i say reuse the yeast i don't mean pitch onto the cake, i mean use an appropriate amount of yeast from the cake for the current beer.