quick sours

[wortnz]

Hey guys,

Looking for some advice on "quick" sours. Thinking the 4 - 6 month region.

Would using say WLP001 for primary ferment then racked with WLP655 secondary ferment still give me an acceptable sour? Not looking for a acid bomb, but say a brett funk to a saison or Belgian inspired pale ale.

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[dantheman13]

Sounds like a good plan for what you want to do. The Belgian mix won't produce much acidity if you pitch it after you've done a primary with Sacch. My only change would be to use a Belgian or Saison yeast to do the primary ferment. Something estery. Brettanomyces needs those esters in order to produce some of those funky flavors you are after.

Also, instead of using the WLP655, I would look into some of the Brett blends from The Yeast Bay. Here's a good list of what else is out there: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Brettanomyces#Commercial_Cultures

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Hey guys,

Looking for some advice on "quick" sours. Thinking the 4 - 6 month region.

Would using say WLP001 for primary ferment then racked with WLP655 secondary ferment still give me an acceptable sour? Not looking for a acid bomb, but say a brett funk to a saison or Belgian inspired pale ale.

Appreciate your thoughts.

If you are looking for faster souring why not pitch the sour blend straight away and give the bugs more sugars to chew on and create acidity?

 

[brisboy]

Or you could do a sour mash until you get the amount of sourness you're after (will only take a couple of days from what I've read, not having done it myself) and then boil and ferment as normal. That would be just lacto sourness rather than brett funk though.

Edit: Instructions on sour mash here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=351918 or here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=255777

 

[masonsjax]

Brett won't really give you sour. Real sours require bacteria and time and are worth waiting for. They can be sour in a short time, but they really develop over longer periods, at least a year. The secret is to brew a lot of them often so once one is ready, you'll have a steady stream of them maturing.

In the meantime, try some of the sour mash techniques to make berliner wiess, gose, and other quick sours. I do these a lot with very acceptable results.

 

[burninator]

There are a couple of current threads about petite saisons on the forum. I don't see why you couldn't turn around a low gravity saison or pale ale in a few months. I just bottled a Belgian pale with a mixed culture that took about two months to finish and stabilize.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=522437

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=527858

 

[badlee]

I am going to try something along this line soon,as I am getting ready to give up alcohol for the 90 days of Buddhist lent.
I will ferment with a mix of Belle Saison/Wallonian Farmhouse/Lacto Brevis and 3F dregs all at the get go.
Plan is to start off at 22c for about 48 hours and then bring up to about 29-31c.

 

[SanPancho]

.....I would look into some of the Brett blends from The Yeast Bay. Here's a good list of what else is out there: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Brettanomyces#Commercial_Cultures

+1 on yeast bay. They've got great selections to try

I really urge you to do some blending, at least at first. It definitely helps your first attempts create the flavor profile you want a lot easier than just throwing a bunch of stuff together and hoping it comes out the way you want.

basically, split your mash in two, or even 60/40. . (No mash hopping or first wort hopping!) Do a normal boil with the first half (or bigger half), pitch anything and everything you want in there in terms of hops, sach, Brett, etc.

Then do the rest of your mash as a kettle sour with lacto B, and let it get real sour- like pH 3.5-3.9 or so. Maybe 48hrs or so at 100-110F. Then pitch with your normal sach type yeast selection.

After 3wks or so you can pull the sour off yeast and mix into normal half until you get to the general level of sour you want. It will get a little bit more sour as it ages, so better to stop a bit short on the sour level. Note the pH level for future reference.

Now you've accomplished the souring quickly, and just need to wait for Brett to kick up the funk. And as Brett works, the sourness will soften and get smoother.
This blending takes some of the waiting and guessing out of the picture for you. Then you just need to worry about the Brett for your next batch to dial in your funk levels. Like dantheman said above- More Brett funk? Stress the sach yeast or go with something high in phenols and esters. At some point only a few months of aging can give you your final answer, but blending can help you get there faster and with a bit more control. It's how a lot of commercial breweries operate- a very sour "reserve" used for blending up the right sour level.

 

[masonsjax]

Oh, and buy OldSock's book. It has all the info you'll ever need and then some.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Oh, and buy OldSock's book. It has all the info you'll ever need and then some.

Great book a must if you want to brew sours. I'm about half way through it and it's a great resource.

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

A brett saison can be turned around reasonably quickly, because the highly attenuating primary yeast will leave little for the brett to chew on sugar wise (little worry of overcarbing) but plenty of esters and phenols to develop the brett. If you want sour, i recommend very low ibu and pitching a lacto brevis starter a day or two in advance.
After a couple months the beer can be bottled, but will still need to age to develop brett character.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Not sure what you have available down there in the southern hemisphere. If you can get ahold of The Yeast Bay you could have a beer ready in that time frame using the Brett Saison or sour farmhouse blends.

If not, you still have options. One would be a sour mash or sour wort. Besides the few days it takes to acidify the wort, your time frame would be about the same as any other beer.

Another way would be to get some bacteria and make a good strong starter. Pitch that into your wort and let it ride for several days before pitching your brewers yeast. Again, use a starter, larger then normal, since you would be pitching into a hostile environment. French saison yeast or belle saison would be good choices, they are pretty acid tolerant. It may not be the most complex sour in the world but it will do what you are asking. This would be a good base for adding fruit or dry hopping. The hops I use for these styles of sour are grown in your backyard (or close). The NZ and Aus super fruit forward hops work great with the acid and dryness from saison yeast!