Quick BJCP Category Question

[Mark Meyers]

Looking to enter an Oreo Stout into a competition, but can't really pin down the category. It's a Sweet Stout base, and the Oreo flavor actually shines through fairly well. The entry doesn't allow me to add extra info if I enter it as a sweet stout, so I'm thinking maybe under Specialty where I can note the adjunct present? Any thoughts?

Edit: Forgot to add that this is an Imperial Sweet Stout.

 

[brownni5]

I've seen Founder's Breakfast Stout and Bell's Java Stout listed under 30A - Spice, Herb or Vegetable beer, but that certainly doesn't sound right. I think you've gone off the rails here!

 

[Mark Meyers]

I've seen Founder's Breakfast Stout and Bell's Java Stout listed under 30A - Spice, Herb or Vegetable beer, but that certainly doesn't sound right. I think you've gone off the rails here!

Heh. Maybe a little. There is some precedent with Oreo beers. This actually turned out really, really tasty. I actually wish we would have set aside some of the base stout.

Yeah, I can see those beers in that category at the very least due to the coffee element. The Oreo stout is really just a big sweet stout with a lot of Oreo added in secondary. Worst comes to worst, I think I'll just chuck it into the specialty category and see what happens.

 

[tmendick]

IMO that should definitely go into SHV

 

[NTexBrewer]

I think your best bet is 34C Experimental Beer.

Oreo Cookies are not a spice herb or vegetable in my opinion. The other problem with putting it in SHV is the base beer is supposed to be a BJCP category beer. There is not a category for an Imperial Sweet Stout.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I would go SHV.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The other problem with putting it in SHV is the base beer is supposed to be a BJCP category beer.

That is completely incorrect. It doesn't have to be a specific base. One could simply say "chocolate stout", but specifying further as "imperial milk stout" will allow judges to better know what to expect.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The other option would be alternative fermentables, but in the specialty heirarchy SHV would be a better fit. I wouldn't go experimental, and if I were judging it in that category I'd tell you it doesn't belong.

 

[bob1852]

It doesn't matter what you put in it, it matters how judges will taste/perceive it.

If you didn't know it's oreos, would you be able to tell it's oreos?

If it just tastes more like chocolate, then SHV.

If it truly tastes like oreo cookies, then experimental may be more appropriate, in my opinion.

 

[shetc]

Beers with things like cookies, doughnuts, cereal, etc generally go into the experimental category. Member of my club recently won a gold medal in the experimental category for his Fruity Pebbles ale.

 

[Qhrumphf]

You're taking a beer and adding a thing. In a way that is not particularly unusual. That's not experimental.

Am I gonna pan your entry if you call it experimental? No.

Am I gonna give deference, especially at mini-BOS or even moreso BOS, to something that IS experimental? Absolutely.

Experimental is where your Eised IPA and alcohol-removed beers go. Something that uses something completely out in left field. In my opinion, the way the guidelines are written that lends more to process than ingredients.

Judged a comp with a rye sourdough kvass with beets. That was entered in experimental. It belonged there. It was really the only entry the experimetal category that did.

 

[bob1852]

You're taking a beer and adding a thing.

Adding a thing that isn't covered in any other category....

In a way that is not particularly unusual. That's not experimental.

The way the description of the category is written, it is experimental....

34C. Experimental Beer
This is explicitly a catch-all category for any beer that does not fit into an existing style description. No beer is ever “out of
style” in this style, unless it fits elsewhere. This is the last resort for any beer entered into a competition.

The definition has nothing to do with unusual or truly experimental....it's just a category for beers that don't fit elsewhere...

I just don't see how an oreo beer fits into SHV...

We use the common or culinary definitions of spices, herbs, and vegetables, not botanical or scientific ones.

I don't know anyone that considers oreos a spice, herb, or vegetable.....by any definition...

 

[Qhrumphf]

What're the component characters? Chocolate is the big one. And that's firmly a SHV regular. Beyond that, you're adding cream-ish sugar. And the lactose. Which meld right into a Milk Stout in the first place. One goes SHV. One goes alternative sugar. And in the heirarchy, SHV outranks anyway and can include the other.

What if they're perceived as off-brand and not Oreo?

This is the same thrust as Breakfast Stouts were, and Pastry Stouts now.

It's not experimental. It's a new rehash on an old idea.

Although unfortunately this shows an underlying issue the OP may run into, where no matter which choice is made, depending on the judges it could be the wrong one.

Although I'm confident enough in my experience in this field to say half of those judges would be wrong, that won't stop it from happening.

Either/or, may do well, may not. Just don't enter in the regular Sweet Stout category.

 

[bob1852]

The next bjcp revision needs to change the name of the experimental category then....

It doesn't mean experimental. It doesn't mean new. Or old.

It purely is a category for beers that don't fit anywhere else...

Like I said earlier, if the beer just tastes like chocolate (or chocolate and vanilla) of course it belongs in SHV. If it truly taste like oreos cookies or generic brand cookies resembling oreos, it should go in experimental, since cookies aren't covered in any other category.

 

[TheMadKing]

Adding a thing that isn't covered in any other category....



The way the description of the category is written, it is experimental....



The definition has nothing to do with unusual or truly experimental....it's just a category for beers that don't fit elsewhere...

I just don't see how an oreo beer fits into SHV...



I don't know anyone that considers oreos a spice, herb, or vegetable.....by any definition...

I'm with Qhrumphf on this one... "Spice" in the culinary sense is any flavoring added to a food.

You can consider almost anything a spice including oreos. Think of it this way, if you wanted to "spice up" a German chocolate cake would you be more likely to add crushed oreos or basil?

I have nowhere near the experience, since I'm not even a full judge yet but from what I've seen, flavored stouts are almost always entered as SHV beers rather than experimental.

A good friend of mine just won a gold for a coconut stout entered in that category by adding Malibu rum to an otherwise ordinary but well-made stout. That's not technically a spice or an herb, but its definitely not experimental.

The BJCP guidelines are not meant to be read by a lawyer. They are guidelines and open for individual interpretation. So neither category would be really truly wrong.

That being said, category is everything. You can enter the same beer in two different categories and get wildely different results so always choose your category based on the beer, not on what you intended for it to taste like.

 

[tmendick]

I don't know anyone that considers oreos a spice, herb, or vegetable.....by any definition...

So that's why my doctor doesn't believe me when I say I eat plenty of vegetables...

 

[mirthfuldragon]

If tasting it blind, does it shout "oreo"? If not, I would be tempted to sent it as sweet stout or imperial stout. Sweet stout's list of examples includes an oyster stout, and oreos make a lot more sense to me than oysters.

Also, regardless of where you enter it, recipe? I am curious and intrigued.

 

[shetc]

If tasting it blind, does it shout "oreo"? If not, I would be tempted to sent it as sweet stout or imperial stout. Sweet stout's list of examples includes an oyster stout, and oreos make a lot more sense to me than oysters.

Also, regardless of where you enter it, recipe? I am curious and intrigued.

Enter it both categories and see how it does.