Questions on first-time kegging

[Boyan R]

So, I am about to keg for the first time - I read a lot of info on this forum and other places, but I still have some questions on carbonation, as a lot of stuff I read was conflicting

I have a corny keg, a 0-60 psi mini CO2 regulator with 16g bulbs (for the time being no co2 bottle), ball lock disconnect with flow control and a Intertap faucet. So far I made small brews on the stove , which I bottle conditioned, usually to 1.8 (I like low-carbonated beer) and it was great. Now I have a 5 gallon brew, an oatmeal stout, which will be done fermenting in about a week and I need to have it carbonated to about 1.8 and ready to drink by new year's! So I have at most 10 days for carbonation. I obviously have 3 options:

prime it with sugar
- This is definitely what I plan to do in the future, but would the 10 days be enough to carbonate it? With the bottles I have satisfying carbonation by day 5 and by day 10 it's perfect, but is the keg working with the same speed? I read that some say 1 week, while others say 2-3 weeks are needed...
- Once I put the beer and sugar in the keg, what PSI should I set on the regulator? Do I set it on serving pressure or less?
- as I will be transporting the keg to another location for NYD, would that be a problem? How long would it need to settle back after that?

force carbonate it on serving pressure
- the method seems clear, I set it on say 10 psi (using the calculators to get the exact level) and leave it for some time. Question again is if 10 days would be enough? Some people say 1 week , others say 2 weeks...

force carbonate on high pressure
- I would rather avoid this, as it will use an extra few co2 bulbs, plus it seems much harder to hit the desired carbonation level like this.

 

[kh54s10]

Priming with sugar could take 3 weeks or longer. For Bottle conditioning I never try one in less than 2 weeks. I get full carbonation in less than 75% in those 2 weeks.
ALL those beers taste better at 3 weeks or longer.

Serving pressure would take at least a week in my experience.

High pressure seems your best bet, maybe not to the 30 PSI that people use to get carbonation in a day or two. Somewhere lower. What that magic PSI would be is a guess.

I would try to let the keg settle for at least a few hours after transport, the longer the better.

 

[balrog]

You might be disappointed in the mini regulator and 16gm CO2 cartridges as it will take quite a few (paging Dr. @doug293cz for calculation)

[Edit: Da Mighty Google says about 90 gm CO2 to carbonate 5 gal beer, not immediately saying whether counting CO2 in solution from fermentation]

 

[RealRayDizzle]

Agreed, minimum 3 weeks if conditioning the whole keg.

you might go through a lot of the c02 bulbs if trying to force carb without a 5lb+ C02 tank.

I use a 5lb C02 tank with regulator set at 30 psi to quick carb, but I also have a spearate keezer just for carbonation/lagering set at ~34deg
Rack beer to keg, set psi to 30 and blow off oxygen in head space
put in 34 deg keezer and let it sit for 3 days

At this point I drop psi to serving, for me it is 12-14 psi (this would depend on your kegorator balance)

if I am planning on drinking it right away I move it to my serving kegorator, or if I am waiting I just leave it in the lagering keezer at 34

My serving Kegorator is at about ~38

This method has worked fine for me and gets the beer drinkable quick at about 2.5-2.7 vol but not fully equalized. if you were to leave at serving pressure for 2 weeks you would have a more equalized beer, which If I am in no hurry ill just set the regulator at 12-14 psi after racking and leave it for 2 weeks+

 

[DVCNick]

You have several problems. What you really need is a CO2 bottle and regulator.

-Prime it with sugar: I've never done this in a keg so I don't know for sure that it would work the same speed as bottle conditioning, but I don't see why it wouldn't? One problem though, not all kegs hold pressure perfectly from atmospheric pressure on up, so you NEED to test your keg or you might be just venting all your C02 as it is produced. I have one keg in particular where the lid I guess just doesn't fit very well. I have to lube the seal every time and even then, it doesn't hold pressure below about 8psi. I have to charge it up quickly to that pressure or it just vents around the lid seal. Something to keep in mind.

-Force carb at serving pressure: I guess opinions vary, but I tried this once, and after two weeks it wasn't nearly enough. I tend to like my beers higher carbed though, so maybe it would be perfect for you. There are a million variables that will impact how long it will take to get right for you, so you are going to see a wide variety of opinions on the internet. Until you try it with your beers on your system to your taste, you won't know for sure.

-Force carb at high pressure: If I had 10 days to carb a keg for a party, this is the only method I would even consider. Incidentally it is the one I have the most experience with, so that helps. I leave it at 30PSI for 48 hours, then turn it down to serving pressure, and it is drinkable at about 5 days, but better if left longer. At 10 days it would be great. Assuming your system is sealed, it won't take any more C02 to do it this way, you will just have it going in faster the first couple days.

If I were you, preparing for a party to share, I wouldn't be experimenting with sub-optimal kegging setups for the first time... I'd just go withe the method I know, bottle conditioning. Sounds like you have just enough time if you want to let it ferment for another week and then condition to your taste for a week.

If you must keg it, I would bite the bullet and get a 5lb tank and regulator, and then I would chill and carb at 30psi for two days, then back it off to desired serving pressure and let it sit till go time. I think that method would be pretty hard to screw up, but opinions will vary.

 

[DVCNick]

Also, all the advice you are getting on force carbing (slow or fast) will be under the assumption that the keg is chilled to serving temp in the mid 30's(ish)... you do have a kegerator and can chill the keg, right?

 

[Day-Day]

The method I've been using is to cold crash before I keg...

Then once the beer is chilled (35ish F) and in the keg, hit it with 30 psi for 24 hrs...

After 24 hours, turn it down to serving pressure (12 psi for me)...

The beer is usually fully carbed in a week....def drinkable within 3-5 days...

At 2 weeks its fully carbed and equalized...

I have zero expreince with those cartridges ... if I were you I'd hop on craigslist or facebook marketplace ASAP and you can probably find a cheap used C02 tank and regulator... it'll be worth it... especially if you need the beer in two weeks.

I can't imagine trying to carbonate 5 gallons of beer with those little cartridges... those types of setups are to carb very small kegs (2ish gallons) or to hold serving pressure for a few hours (taking keg to party, etc.) on a small or 5 gallon keg...

I'm pretty sure they're not designed to carbonate 5 gallons of beer.... although I could be wrong...

 

[Boyan R]

OK thanks for the input. I am going with the mini regulator and bulbs because of several issues, including space. I also want to get a 5l mini keg and be able to use the same setup with it and have it portable. The mini regulator can use a 1lb bottle like soda stream bottles and I might get one of those later, but I don't have it now.

Also I don't actually have a keggerator at the moment, but I have a place that is around 50f at the moment, which is serving temp for british-style ales anyway (and is what I will be brewing most of the time). And at summertime (when I switch from british bitter/stout to NEIPAs) I will use the mini keg to keep cold beer in the fridge and fill it up from the corny. It is pretty much the ikegger-type setup , although i bought the pieces from other places.

The internet says about 3 16g bulbs are enough for dispensing a 5 gallon keg and you need about 3-4 more to force carbonate it. If this turns out to be correct - price-wise it will be more than ok for me. I will report back here.

I think I am going to try the force carbonation at serving pressure this time. For 1.8 volumes at 50F the calculator says 9PSI - I am going to leave it at that for a week and taste the beer - if not carbonated enough, I will up the pressure for the last several days.

Then my next brew will be primed in the keg - so I can compare the difference in time and taste and decide on how I want to proceed. One thing I still don't understand - if I am priming, once I close the keg do I put any pressure on it, or just purge the oxygen and release the pressure with the valve? Or set the regulator to at least some 4-5 psi to keep it sealed better (and I can at least catch leaks this way)?

Priming with sugar could take 3 weeks or longer. For Bottle conditioning I never try one in less than 2 weeks. I get full carbonation in less than 75% in those 2 weeks.
ALL those beers taste better at 3 weeks or longer.

Tastewise it's definitely best after 3-4 weeks with bottle conditioning! I have noticed some harsh alcohol off-taste in the first 2 weeks, probably because of the newly started fermentation and the yeast has not yet cleared the bad molecules? It's weird I get it more pronounced in some styles and much less in others, I guess it depends on different factors. But I suppose I should expect the same with the keg if I keg-condition?

 

[Day-Day]

I get the space issue... but if you have room to store a 5 gallon corny keg... you've got room for a 5lb C02 tank... and it'll make your life SO MUCH easier than dealing with those little cartridges... and those cartridges aren't cheap. The cartridges might be cheaper in the short-term... but in the long run a tank and regulator will save you money, time and heahache.

I've never primed a keg.. but if you absolutely can't get a tank and regulator for your next batch, I'd go that route (priming)... plenty of people do it with great success.. and some even prefer it. There's plenty of good info on here on how to prime kegs. You could prime them, then serve with the littler cartridges.

I'd assume all the same principles apply to priming a keg... that apply to bottle conditioning ... maybe even add sometime since it's a larger volume... but again I've never done it... so you'll have to find the info yourself to be sure.

Also if you're going to use the set it and forget it method... I'd hit it with high pressure first... you'd be less likely to over carbonate. If you set it and forget it then after a week it's not where you want it and you up the gas... you run the risk of over carbonation. If you hit it with high pressure first for 24-48 hrs ... then drop to serving pressure... you are much less likely (almost impossible) to overcarbonate.. and it'll probably carb quicker too.. just my 2 cents.

Good luck !!!

 

[TurnipGreen]

Thanks for posting this i’m new to kegging too and need some beers ready for next week.

I plan on putting two kegs at 30 psi for a day then dropping then down to 14 psi until my folks get here next weekend.

I’m really looking forward to planning well enough to prime with sugar some day.

 

[Day-Day]

I'm sure some have expensive equipment but not all... but you're right... you can hit your terminal gravity on those bigger beers without adding extra oxygen during active fermentation.

Thanks for posting this i’m new to kegging too and need some beers ready for next week.

I plan on putting two kegs at 30 psi for a day then dropping then down to 14 psi until my folks get here next weekend.

I’m really looking forward to planning well enough to prime with sugar some day.

That should get you exaclty where you need to be.. although serving pressure depends on several factors... you need to balance your system... line lenght, beer temp, beer style, etc. Here's a good video by Legend Beer and BBQ Larry that walks you through the steps.

 

[Boyan R]

I do have a regulator - similar to this:

the difference is just the bulbs, in other words - long term cost. There shall be no difference in the core usage itself. The main reason I went that route is because if I put it on a mini corny , it can all go in my fridge, while a big co2 bottle would always require a keggerator!

And I am not in the US, so pricewise it's a bit different for me - a big bottle is more expensive than what you pay in the US and would require driving to get it filled, while the bulbs seem to be cheaper and I buy them delivered to my address along with the all the brew ingredients.

I will not forget to keep reporting back on how it goes, I guess there are others in similar situation. Thanks to everyone who replied!

 

[Alex4mula]

I understand being out of US could be a big issue. We are so spoiled here with easy access to so much close by or one click away and next day at your door. After being brewing for one year I can see the benefit of the big decisions I made when I started. From my first brew, I did keg and force carbonated. So nice to have the beer ready to drink the next day! I invested in 5lb bottle/reg and carb stone. Perfect and easy carbonation all the time. But not everybody may have the +/-$140 I invested. But it makes life so easy. Also, I got a used fridge to cold crash. That helps because beer carbs faster colder. I wouldn't brew if I had to bottle. So each person can invest at their own pace. But these things help a lot.

 

[kh54s10]

For keg priming, you will have to make sure your lid seats fully. If not as the sugar is consumed and co2 is produced it will just leak out of the keg. I have to apply at least 13 psi to get my lids to seal.

OP, "I think I am going to try the force carbonation at serving pressure this time. For 1.8 volumes at 50F the calculator says 9PSI - I am going to leave it at that for a week and taste the beer - if not carbonated enough, I will up the pressure for the last several days." I doubt you will get much carbonation at 9 psi in a week. My serving pressure is 11 psi and to set and forget takes at least 2 weeks.