Questions about Ward Labs Water results.

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Kinggolf83

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For a couple years I was buying my water from the grocery store and had pretty good results with my IPAs and Pales. I decided it was getting pretty expensive and I had decent drinking water from the tap. Now my pales and IPAs don’t have the hoppy “pop” they used to and have a harsh after taste.

I decided to get my water tested to see if this was the issue. I attached my report. If anyone has a comments or concerns I’d appreciate the help! Thanks!
Adjustments.JPG
 
That water isn’t bad. But it does have enough alkalinity to need an acid source when brewing pale beers. Attend to that and most of your problems will go away. For your hoppy beers, a bit more sulfate in the water may make you happier with the ‘pop’.
 
That water isn’t bad. But it does have enough alkalinity to need an acid source when brewing pale beers. Attend to that and most of your problems will go away. For your hoppy beers, a bit more sulfate in the water may make you happier with the ‘pop’.

Thanks for the help. It’s good to hear I won’t have to start from scratch. Would a little Acidulated Malt work or should I investigate another avenue. Any suggestions on amounts? I generally brew five gallon all grain batches.

As far as the Sulfates are concerned, would calcium sulfate be a good avenue for increasing my sulfates?
 
I'm not a big fan of acid malt since it's a natural product and its acidity can vary. Lactic and phosphoric acid with known strength is more certain for executing pH adjustment.

Sure, gypsum is a good choice. That water already has a modest amount of magnesium and you can only afford to add a bit more of Epsom salt to supply sulfate and magnesium.
 
With tap water you also need to get rid of the chlorine and/or chloramines that your local water authority adds as bactericides. To do this add 1/4 of a crushed Campden tablet to each 5 gallons of your tap water. It will immediately address the chlorine/chloramines. Then, as Martin said, you will need to bring down the alkalinity with acid. Along with some gypsum, some calcium chloride should also be added. Note that chlorine and chloride are two different things.
 
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3.4 mL of 88% Lactic Acid or 36.2 mL of 10% Phosphoric Acid added to each 5 gallons of your tap water should sufficiently address the alkalinity to leave you with ~pH 5.4 water.
 
Awesome! I already use campden tablets for my tap water to reduce the Chloramine. I’ll start experimenting with lactic acidosis too. Now my next question, I have a HERMS system and I currently hear my mash water and fly sparge water together. Can I just dose the entire volume of water or should I start separating them? I know some people dose the mash water differently than the sparge water.

Also, I assume the gypsum will have to be a trial and error ordeal depending on the pales and IPAs I make and how I will like them. Any advice as far as that is concerned?
 
3.4 mL of 88% Lactic Acid or 36.2 mL of 10% Phosphoric Acid added to each 5 gallons of your tap water should sufficiently address the alkalinity to leave you with ~pH 5.4 water.

Thanks Silver. I’ve got same water as Kinggolf so that is a big help.
 
Thanks Silver. I’ve got same water as Kinggolf so that is a big help.

For the sake of people who don't have 115 ppm alkalinity water, but want to calculate this on their own, I offer this "generally close enough" (I.E, somewhat corner cutting) method.

I will stick with 115 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3) and 5 gallons of such water for these examples:

Molecular weight of CaCO3 = 100.0869 g/mol = 100.0869 mg/mmol
Charge (or valence) of the Ca++ ion = +2
Equivalent Weight of CaCO3 = 100.0869 / +2 = 50.04345 g/Eq = 50.04345 mg/mEq

115 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3) = 115 mg/L

115mg/L / 50.04345 mg/mEq = 2.298 mEq/L of alkalinity as CaCO3

2.298 mEq/L x 5 Gal. water x 3.7854 L/Gal. = 43.4942 mEq's of alkalinity as CaCO3

10% phosphoric acid = ~1.0746 mEq/mL at pH 5.4
88% lactic acid = ~11.45 mEq/mL at pH 5.4

43.4942 mEq alkalinity / 1.0746 mEq/mL = 40.475 mL of 10% phosphoric acid to neutralize 5 Gal. of this water to ~pH 4.3
40.475 mL x 0.90 = ~36.4 mL of 10% phosphoric acid to neutralize this water to ~pH 5.4

43.4942 mEq alkalinity / 11.45 mEq/mL = 3.7986 mL of 88% lactic acid to neutralize 5 Gal. of this water to ~pH 4.3
3.7986 mL x 0.90 = ~3.4 mL of 88% lactic acid to neutralize this water to ~pH 5.4

NOTE: A.J. deLange has detailed the precise method for computing this on this forum, and it is well more complex and complicated and confusing than the above, but for most waters the end results are generally close between the two methods, such that this method can be considered good enough for most practical purposes (strictly IMHO). The shortcuts mainly involve ignoring the waters initial pH and only targeting ~5.4 pH. If your source water has a mainstream normal pH, and targeting pH 5.4 to rid yourself of pesky alkalinity is OK with you, then (in my opinion, always subject to change or correction) this method should work fine.

If you want to use other acids, you will need to discover their mEq/mL acid strength and substitute it into this method.

These values should be close:
80% Lactic Acid, mEq/mL ~= 10.4
75% Phosphoric Acid, mEq/mL ~= 12.08
85% Phosphoric Acid, mEq/mL ~= 14.65
AMS (CRS), effective mEq/mL ~= 3.66

The below is a bit more speculative (I.E., less confidence on my part, albeit that it seems intuitively to be correct):

If you want to target a specific remaining alkalinity in your water make the two following revisions:
1) Subtract the specific alkalinity you want to have remaining in your water post acid adjustment from your starting alkalinity.
2) Target pH 4.3 and then do not back-adjust to pH 5.4.
 
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Thanks Silver. That’s a lot of great information. I’ll have to delve into it a bit more to understand it though[emoji23]. I’m a math guy but not much background in chem.

I’ll have to check out AJ’s writings on water. I have Palmer and Kaminski’s book that AJ did the forward to but I haven’t quite finished it yet( let alone comprehend a lot of it too).

Thanks again for the help!
 
Another thought I had, would the alkalinity of my water have an effect on my efficiency? I notice a drop in efficiency when I switched water but attributed it to the new brew stand and not knowing my system well enough yet.
 
Mash pH will affect efficiency. So a change in water could indirectly affect it if not corrected for in treatment.
 
Thanks everyone. I’m going to give it a try this weekend.

Any thoughts on treating just mash water or sparge water or both?
 
One last question, when is the best time to add gypsum and magnesium chloride? Should this be done with the strike water for the mash and sparge or should it be added during the boil? Any pros or cons to either solution would be helpful.

Thanks!
 
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