Questions about March Pumps answered by the Factory!

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PunkinDrublic, go here: http://www.marchpump.com/site/files/966/109758/375997/601268/0135-0107-1000_R15.pdf
that shows all the options for the MDX pumps

You can buy parts#: 2/5/9/10/11/19 and you can convert it to 1/2FPT on the inlet and 3/8FPT outlet.....beside that i dont think that compression fittings will work in this case....unless you wanted to use a short piece of hose with some hose clamps or somthing...
 
Thank you! That's a much better option than I had imagined. You just saved me a huge headache Walter, I appreciate you helping all of us out.
 
I have purchased a TE-5C-MD and will be using as a CIP pump for my conical fermenter. How big a difference in flow will I see between using 3/4" ID tubing versus 1" ID tubing. I am anticipating about 3 ft of tubing on the input side of the pump and 7 feet of tubing on the output side of the pump. I do not anticipate a big difference because the hole on the output side of the pump is less than 1/2" in diameter.
 
Well we havent tested it in that configuration but i would guess you would be in the neighborhood of about 14gpm full flow with no restriction...instead of the 18gpm the pump is capable of doing....it will also depend on what else may be posing a restriction on the outlet side...like valves, 90's etc...that pump will still be able to produce the same pressure readings as the standard pump can do if you restrcit it enough.
 
I'm building a 3-tier brew stand, and am to the point where I'm ready to mount my March 809 pump. The ideal place would be on what might be described as the other side of my BK flame/heat shield, which is 1/8" steel. I don't actually expect flame to hit the shield - it's primarily just to protect plastic tubing (on the other side) from getting melted by the heat.

That said, I'm concerned that mounting the pump to this shield might be too hot for the pump. It obviously wouldn't be in use until the flame was put out, but by then it would likely be pretty warm, and would then have boiling wort pumped through it. Basically, I don't know if having the pump at a potentially hot temperature would damage it if it wasn't in use?

I'm not sure if my description is adequate, so I clamped the pump where I'd like to mount it, and took a quick picture. It's not obvious from the picture, but the pump is about the level of the burner, so I'd expect the actual flames to be above the pump - any heat would not be direct, but would be transferred indirectly through the heated frame/shield. Can anyone comment as to whether this is likely to damage the pump?

Thanks
~Dean

IMG_1098.JPG
 
stevehaun said:
I have purchased a TE-5C-MD and will be using as a CIP pump for my conical fermenter. How big a difference in flow will I see between using 3/4" ID tubing versus 1" ID tubing. I am anticipating about 3 ft of tubing on the input side of the pump and 7 feet of tubing on the output side of the pump. I do not anticipate a big difference because the hole on the output side of the pump is less than 1/2" in diameter.
Click to expand...

I use a TE-5C-MD to run a CIP on my brewhemoth with 3/4" ID tubing. I can tell you that I wouldn't bother with the higher price of 1" tubing. I find that it has plenty of pressure and volume the way it is.

Just my 2 cents.
 
beardedirishman said:
I use a TE-5C-MD to run a CIP on my brewhemoth with 3/4" ID tubing. I can tell you that I wouldn't bother with the higher price of 1" tubing. I find that it has plenty of pressure and volume the way it is.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I hope you dont have 3/4" tubing on the discharge side of the pump as well....the output can exceed the input and you can be running the pump in a starvation situation....as long as you have a 1/2" line on the outlet then a 3/4" inlet should be just fine for these setups.
 
"I hope you dont have 3/4" tubing on the discharge side of the pump as well....the output can exceed the input and you can be running the pump in a starvation situation....as long as you have a 1/2" line on the outlet then a 3/4" inlet should be just fine for these setups."

Would I be better off with 1" on the input side and 3/4" on the output side? Even with equal ID on both sides of the pump, I would think I would be ok as the output side is 7 ft and input side is 3 ft - so the resistance of the tubing should be twice as high. Also the output side will have 5 ft of head and a spray ball to provide additional resistance to flow.
 
0verdrive said:
I'm building a 3-tier brew stand, and am to the point where I'm ready to mount my March 809 pump. The ideal place would be on what might be described as the other side of my BK flame/heat shield, which is 1/8" steel. I don't actually expect flame to hit the shield - it's primarily just to protect plastic tubing (on the other side) from getting melted by the heat.

That said, I'm concerned that mounting the pump to this shield might be too hot for the pump. It obviously wouldn't be in use until the flame was put out, but by then it would likely be pretty warm, and would then have boiling wort pumped through it. Basically, I don't know if having the pump at a potentially hot temperature would damage it if it wasn't in use?

I'm not sure if my description is adequate, so I clamped the pump where I'd like to mount it, and took a quick picture. It's not obvious from the picture, but the pump is about the level of the burner, so I'd expect the actual flames to be above the pump - any heat would not be direct, but would be transferred indirectly through the heated frame/shield. Can anyone comment as to whether this is likely to damage the pump?

Thanks
~Dean

IMG_1098.JPG
Click to expand...

I'd say do a test run with water and see how hot it actually gets. You have allot of surface to heat up in that plate...plus the flames would be going up to the pot...the heat getting to the sides would be radiant and not direct. You can even mount the pump on some stand-offs...it can be as simple as a few washers stacked together to lift the mounting plate off the stand....that way you can get some air between the pump and the rig and it would take longer for the heat to affect it...
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
I'd say do a test run with water and see how hot it actually gets. You have allot of surface to heat up in that plate...plus the flames would be going up to the pot...the heat getting to the sides would be radiant and not direct. You can even mount the pump on some stand-offs...it can be as simple as a few washers stacked together to lift the mounting plate off the stand....that way you can get some air between the pump and the rig and it would take longer for the heat to affect it...
Click to expand...

I'll give that a shot. That said, what's the best way for me to measure the temperature at the pump? (Would it be sufficient to just measure the temperature of the pump body?) Also, what would (roughly) the max temperature be that I'd want the pump to reach while not risking damaging the pump?

Thanks again!
~Dean
 
stevehaun said:
"I hope you dont have 3/4" tubing on the discharge side of the pump as well....the output can exceed the input and you can be running the pump in a starvation situation....as long as you have a 1/2" line on the outlet then a 3/4" inlet should be just fine for these setups."

Would I be better off with 1" on the input side and 3/4" on the output side? Even with equal ID on both sides of the pump, I would think I would be ok as the output side is 7 ft and input side is 3 ft - so the resistance of the tubing should be twice as high. Also the output side will have 5 ft of head and a spray ball to provide additional resistance to flow.
Click to expand...

If you can install a 1" line on the inlet it would get you better performance. Thats also assuming the fitting on the pot is 1" and you not just using and adapter just to fit a 1" line :)

Its also going to depend on the actuall resistance the pump see's on the outlet side. If you have only 5' of head, you would only see like 2psi if you hooked up a gauge. (thats assuming the spray ball and any other fittings are posing no restriction on the pump) If the pump is trying to move liquid at the rate its capable of (18gpm) then the velocity of the liquid going into the pump would be around 8ft/sec if you were using 3/4" lines. If you step up to the 1" line the velocity going into the pump would drop to about 5ft/sec.

With mag-drive pumps, you want to be sure the volume thats coming out of the pump is not greater then whats going into it. When the pump is properly setup the impeller "floats" in a neutral position in the pump housing....and the centrifical action of the impeller spinning forces the liquid to the outsides of the pump housing and out the discharge of the pump. When you in essence "starve" the pump with not enough volume of liquid getting into it, what happens is the impeller gets sucked up against the front thrust washer and instead of a transfer pump it becomes more of a suction pump...and thats not good. The trust washer will initailly take the brunt of the punishment till it either wears out....or the front of the impeller will wear and eventually the area where the trust washer contast will wear down enough for the impeller to start contacting the face of the pump housing. I'll post you guys some pics of some of the bigger units we make and how customers have damaged them ;)
 
Ok, the first pic should be our 5.5 series pump impellers. You can see the center section where the shaft goes through, a line that looks like you can fit a flat head screwdrive into...thats our wear indicator. As you can see the impeller on the left is worn down to almost nothing compared tot he new one on the right.
The second pic shows the series 5 pump that was starved...you can see how the ceramic thrust washer had damaged the center section of the impeller as compared to the new one on the left!
The third pic shows You can see how running these units dry can melt a hole in the rear housings!!!
And the last pic shows the carnage after one of our OEM's in a medical field dumped too much sodium bicarbonate into the tank where our pump was being used to mix/recirculate/dissolve the power into a liquid form. :)

5.5c starved.jpg


5C starved2.jpg


5c dry run.jpg


5C starved.jpg
 
0verdrive said:
I'll give that a shot. That said, what's the best way for me to measure the temperature at the pump? (Would it be sufficient to just measure the temperature of the pump body?) Also, what would (roughly) the max temperature be that I'd want the pump to reach while not risking damaging the pump?

Thanks again!
~Dean
Click to expand...

Well the pump head itself can withstand temps higher then the 250* we rate it for....the issue at that temp is the magnets themselves start to loose magnetism. As for the motor, it has a thermal overload built into it....im not 100% sure tot he rating but it should be somewhere between 203-221*F where it shuts off....the inside of the motor usually runs hotter then the surface of it so if you had a probe measureing it, it would probably be shutting off right around 190*F. Themotor Mfg has told us that as long as the thermal overload is not constantly tripping on and off, the motor can run safely up to those temps. We usually state ambient(room) temps of 104*F for most of our applications due tot he fact we dont know how much cooling the pumps will be getting.....obviously if its in a nice big open area then 104* wouldnt be a big deal....if its inside a box then the temps can get up there quickly if there no exchange of fresh air...
 
What is everyone's thoughts on including a waste valve on the output to help me reprime when needed?

Pump Outlet < Stainless T < Bend on T to Waste Valve < Straigh Output of T to my Kettle Return
 
It will work fine, but another thing to keep clean eh?

If you run closed quick disconnects, it makes sense, since they seal when not connected, and if your output is submerged in water, like a recirculating boil kettle, it'd be a pain to get them primed, but if you run open quick disconnects, like camlocks, just disconnected them allows me to prime easily.

I'm horrible at cleaning, so to me it would be a pain, but your system might be different.
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
I hope you dont have 3/4" tubing on the discharge side of the pump as well....the output can exceed the input and you can be running the pump in a starvation situation....as long as you have a 1/2" line on the outlet then a 3/4" inlet should be just fine for these setups.
Click to expand...

Nope, my pump has a 1" input and a 3/4" output, so i've matched the input/output sizes accordingly.
 
Walter, I seem to be struck with the same rusting problem on my 809 SS head and cscade. This pump has only been used for 3 beers and cleaned with lots of water between each batch and allowed to dry with all valves fully open. I was reading about another person having problems with their head rusting so I figured I would take mine apart to see if there was any issues and sure enough RUST! there is rust on 2 spots on the inside where the impeller rotates and more rust on the inside of the stem. This was the first time I have taken the head apart and the pump has about 1 hr run time total with just wort. I was also surprised to see that the inside of the pump head is not polished all the way and the rust is occurring where there heads seem to be not polished. Seem to be a manufacturing problem and not some foreign object getting in and scratching it. At this point I do not want to try and sand the rust out since this pump is so new. Thoughts?









 
Walter,

I have an issue with one of my two 809HS pumps. I have attached a photo of my setup. They have the 815 impeller upgrade, but this issue happens with either impeller installed. The pump on the left is the problem pump; strangely enough, it is the one pumping only sparge and cooling water; no wort. I've never had any issues with the pump on the right, which I use only for wort transfer. I recirculate hot PBW and drain plenty of water through the wort pump after brewing. I don't do this for the problem pump, since it only pumps water to begin with. Both pumps are very clean inside.

The problem pump seizes up when pumping 170F water. Under 150 or so it's OK, but at 170 it will squeak and seize up every few minutes. Purging air through the priming valve helps, but buys me only a few minutes. The problem is worst when I restrict the flow on the out ball valve to a trickle for sparging.

Last time I disassembled the pump, I realized it was missing the thrust washer, so I replaced that, thinking for sure that would solve the problem. No dice. So, today while brewing I noticed some pea-sized bubbles traveling up the out-hose from the pump. With no bubbles whatsoever coming down the in-hose, this leads me to believe air is somehow getting in the pump (or it's cavitating?) Could it be the head gasket? Any help you could provide would be appreciated.

pump.jpg
 
Hi Walter,

Could you please point me in the direction of some replacement Teflon thrust washers for the 809HS?

p/n: 0809-0043-1000.

Thank you.
 
JonathanS said:
I got mine (Teflon thrust washers) from http://www.tescopumps.com. I'm sure you could look on the March pump website and find a list of their distributors as well.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I could too, but I was hoping for a few in an envelope with a stamp instead of flat rate shipping charges on such a small item.
 
ekjohns, check your PM

greenbirds, dril the impeller out with a 17/64" drill bit and that shoudl cure the seizing issues. The air bubbles are either a leak from a possible pinched o-ring or you could be cavitating the pump if you have enough restriction on the inlet side. Usually choking off the outlet and slowing things down will get rid of them...
 
Walter,

I am sure the answer is here somewhere but I scanned through this thread and used the search function and nothing came up to answer my specific question. I just received a March 815 PL-C pump and I have a question about hookups. My entire system uses 1/2" connects at this point but the model I have has a center connection that can either use a 3/4 fpt or 3/8 mpt adapter.

My question is can/should I use a 3/4 fpt to 1/2 fpt converter or should I use a 3/8 mpt for the input? Beyond any issues using 3/4 might cause with priming, etc. should I be concerned with sediment buildup on the internal threads that remain exposed if I do not use a 3/8 mpt?
 
cstierle said:
[...]
My question is can/should I use a 3/4 fpt to 1/2 fpt converter or should I use a 3/8 mpt for the input? Beyond any issues using 3/4 might cause with priming, etc. should I be concerned with sediment buildup on the internal threads that remain exposed if I do not use a 3/8 mpt?
Click to expand...

I'm not Walter, but I would definitely recommend not using a 3/8" anything on the input to a March 809 or 815 pump if you don't want to have endless headaches with it...

Cheers!
 
use the 3/4 to 1/2 adapter...and if you are concerned about anything building up on the internal threads then just pass a 11/16" drill bit through it and drill the threads out. Just watch how deep you go so you dont rip rith though it the housing and ruin it! :)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
use the 3/4 to 1/2 adapter...and if you are concerned about anything building up on the internal threads then just pass a 11/16" drill bit through it and drill the threads out. Just watch how deep you go so you dont rip rith though it the housing and ruin it! :)
Click to expand...

Walter,

Thank you for the feedback. I was pretty sure 3/4 to 1/2 was the way to go but if that is always the best way to go it didn't make sense to me to have 3/8 threading in-palce at all. For now I will leave the threads there and will check after a few brews to see if there is any build-up. I wonder if anyone that has had a March pump with a center input in-place for a while can comment on what they have seen?
 
Don't be mislead by the 3/8" size...Its not translating to the opening....when it comes to pipe fittings, a 3/8" pipe thread has an outside diameter of just over 9/16".....if you got a 1/2" barb to a 3/8" male pipe thread fitting the pump wouldn't have any problems...it may choke a bit of the flow depending on your setup, but it should be ok.
 
my pump (a morebeer H315HF) will no longer spin on it's own. It is a relatively new pump and has only been used twice.
When I turn it all it does is buzz. The fan blades and magnet do not turn at all. I removed the pump head with the power off and the magnet turns freely. when I turn the power on the magnet just sits there buzzing. If i give it some help and spin the magnet with my fingers, the motor kicks in and it spins.

I put some oil in the ports
I made sure the fan blades were not catching on anything
I made sure the motor turns freely without power

I'm not sure what else to try. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 
it sounds like what most motors do when they have been dropped or hit hard enough to tweak them out of alignment. If you want to send it back to me here i'll see what i can do for you.
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Don't be mislead by the 3/8" size...Its not translating to the opening....when it comes to pipe fittings, a 3/8" pipe thread has an outside diameter of just over 9/16".....if you got a 1/2" barb to a 3/8" male pipe thread fitting the pump wouldn't have any problems...it may choke a bit of the flow depending on your setup, but it should be ok.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, that pretty much goes against everything your user guide says wrt providing a non-restricted path to the pump input. And who cares about the OD of a 3/8" pipe - it's the ID that counts, and a typical 3/8" brass npt pipe end has an ID of 1/4".

When the guide advise against having a 1/2" street elbow right at the pump inlet, it's hard to understand why you'd give your okey dokey to using a 3/8" pipe there...

Cheers!
 
Were not talking about barb fittings though......i have a piece of 3/8" npt pipe on my desk and the ID is exactly .492"
I'd have to go and try to find some specs on brass fittings but they should be more or less the same as well...
 
I have a march 809 hs that I bought from Austin Homebrew last April. I have used it about 6 times since I built my stand. During the last two brews I have noticed a low pitch squeeling and a rattling sound coming from the pump. It still pumps but is very annoying. I read on here about taking it apart and making sure that it was clean inside, so, I did that last night. When looking at the parts diagram it appears there should be a little washer between the impeller and housing. Mine doesn't have one and it's obvious that the impeller has been rubbing against the housing leaving some marks. I can turn the impeller by hand and cause the noise. I have to think that the washer was never there. I never ran it dry and it always pumped well. I would like to confirm that there is supposed to be a washer there and if so where do I get one?
 
Walter, I have a few month old 815 from Morebeer and have been experiencing the same problem pumping boiling liquids as many other posters here. I took apart the head and found I don't have the thrust washer. How can I get one?
 
Also, like Walter mentioned earlier in the thread, make sure you're not running the pump restricted on the input side in any way. That can cause it to chew up the thrust washer relatively quickly.

digitalhifi said:
Walter, I have a few month old 815 from Morebeer and have been experiencing the same problem pumping boiling liquids as many other posters here. I took apart the head and found I don't have the thrust washer. How can I get one?
Click to expand...
:)
 
Hi Walter, I just wanted to give you a big thanks for the help you have given me and for all of the questions you have been answering. We appreciate you here at HBT.

-cl330b
 
I just wanted to say I got the new thrust washers and with them and the help of this thread, my pumping on brewday was smoother than ever!
 
I'm looking for drawings that show dimensions and distances for the March 809 pump that MoreBeer sells as their H315 pump. I don't have the newer H315HF pump, but the older one.

I see on March's website that drawings are available, but there are many variants of the 809. What is March's full model number that is carried by MoreBeer as the H315?

I'm looking into making some kind of splashproof hood or housing for the pumps. I feel that I have gotten away with too many close calls when using water around those pumps on brew day. I don't want to hose them down at the wrong moment during a brew.

Edit: Found it...http://www.marchpump.com/809-pl-hs/
 

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