Question for those frst wort hoppers out there...

[bgough]

Just wondering how FWH effects the bittering edition?

Do you just take the 60 minute, or bittering hops, and move them to FWH, or do you change the quantity?
Do you still need a bittering edition if you FWH??

Any help is appreciated.

 

[jacksonbrown]

Do a thread search, there's tons of info on this board about FWH. The general opinion is that your later addition hops, the aroma and flavor additions, be moved to FWH. And you should calculate them as 45 min additions. You still want your bitter additions, but this is all generally speaking. I've seen recipes out there that only have a FWH addition and nothing else. FWH will add flavor, aroma and bitterness, but on a very smooth and mellow level. Enjoy!

 

[shortyjacobs]

When I search, I get two results:

1) FWH adds 10% more bitterness than a 60 min addition. (This is reflected in Beersmith. roughly, if you have a 60 min addition and it gives you 30 IBUs, then FWH of the same amoutn will give you 33 IBUs). To me, this means "move your bittering hops to FWH and you'll get a bit more bitterness, but it will be smoother.

2) FWH is the same as a 20 minute addition, (or 45, as you say jacksonbrown).

I really don't understand how FWH can act as an aroma addition, since you are still BOILING it afterwards, which would drive off all those delicate aromatics, and isomerize the alpha acids, leading to, basically, a bittering addition. For this reason, I follow "#1" above....dunno if I am right though.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

When I search, I get two results:

1) FWH adds 10% more bitterness than a 60 min addition. (This is reflected in Beersmith. roughly, if you have a 60 min addition and it gives you 30 IBUs, then FWH of the same amoutn will give you 33 IBUs). To me, this means "move your bittering hops to FWH and you'll get a bit more bitterness, but it will be smoother.

2) FWH is the same as a 20 minute addition, (or 45, as you say jacksonbrown).

I really don't understand how FWH can act as an aroma addition, since you are still BOILING it afterwards, which would drive off all those delicate aromatics, and isomerize the alpha acids, leading to, basically, a bittering addition. For this reason, I follow "#1" above....dunno if I am right though.

FWH bitterness will typ 'measure out' (i.e. by a lab) to be 10% more iso-alpha acids than a 60 minute addition but the perception is that it tastes more like a 20-minute addition. How's that work? I'm not sure. I FWH a lot and calculate it as a 20-minute addition and it seems in the ballpark to me, but I never do it with high AA% hops (high AA% hops would be more likely to show an error in IBU calculations).

I agree with not getting aroma from it though. Just smooth flavor and bitterness IME. AFAIC, you can move whatever hop additions to whatever time in the process you want to achieve a certain goal. FWH has it's own bitterness/flavor/aroma profile just like any other addition.

 

[smizak]

I really don't understand how FWH can act as an aroma addition, since you are still BOILING it afterwards, which would drive off all those delicate aromatics, and isomerize the alpha acids, leading to, basically, a bittering addition. For this reason, I follow "#1" above....dunno if I am right though.

The theory is that FWH tends to stabilize certain aroma compounds at the mash/sparge runoff temp, those compounds then can survive the boil and be perceived in the finished beer.

 

[Denny]

It looks like my study people are referencing in regards to FWH adding about 10% more IBU than a 60 min. addition. But it doesn't replace your 60 min. bittering addition. You use the hops that would ordinarily be your flavor addition at around 20 min. The FWH also produces bittering results that taste like a 20 min. addition, despite how it measures. I will occasionally do a beer where I use FWH for bittering, but I treat thet like you would treat "hopbursting", where you add all the hops in the last 20 min. In general, I use FWH for flavor and do the tradtional bittering addition, too.

 

[smizak]

It looks like my study people are referencing in regards to FWH adding about 10% more IBU than a 60 min. addition. But it doesn't replace your 60 min. bittering addition. You use the hops that would ordinarily be your flavor addition at around 20 min. The FWH also produces bittering results that taste like a 20 min. addition, despite how it measures. I will occasionally do a beer where I use FWH for bittering, but I treat thet like you would treat "hopbursting", where you add all the hops in the last 20 min. In general, I use FWH for flavor and do the tradtional bittering addition, too.

So Denny, your calculated IBU rate is much higher then, right?

I FWH some Centennials in a pale ale, but just moved the 60 min. addition. It seemed damn hoppy, even judged in a comp as being a little too hop assertive for an APA.

Edit: By hoppy I mean bitter, BTW

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The fact is, that even today, the mechanics of fiorst wort hopping are not well understood as to why or how the aromatics and flavanoids get locked in.

But much blind subjective testing has shown enough statistic to establish that somehow it does.

 

[Denny]

So Denny, your calculated IBU rate is much higher then, right?

I FWH some Centennials in a pale ale, but just moved the 60 min. addition. It seemed damn hoppy, even judged in a comp as being a little too hop assertive for an APA.

Edit: By hoppy I mean bitter, BTW

Nope, in Promash I set the FWH utilization to be equal to a 20 min. boil. That's what it tastes like to me. It's subjective.