Question about scorching

[WarEagleBrewer]

I'm trying to learn as much as I can to decide what route I want to build my home brewing system into. One of the concerns I've seen is that with a RIMS system, the wort needs to be moving fast enough over the element to prevent scorching. But, For those who use a heating element in the boil kettle, isn't this still an issue? Or CAN you put an element in the boil kettle (I know I've seen this....)? Thanks for helping me understand this.

 

[augiedoggy]

the wort can move pretty slow thorough a rims actually... the element just needs to be LWD or ULWD.
think of HWD elements like heating the bottom of a pot with a torch vs ULWD elements like a large diameter burner putting out the same amount of energy through a gentler larger spread out surface area.

 

[WarEagleBrewer]

the wort can move pretty slow thorough a rims actually... the element just needs to be LWD or ULWD.
think of HWD elements like heating the bottom of a pot with a torch vs ULWD elements like a large diameter burner putting out the same amount of energy through a gentler larger spread out surface area.

Gotcha, so as long as it is the right element, I could (theoretically) have the heating element under a false bottom, connected to a pump and temp controller, thus allowing me to mash (in a bag) and then boil in the same pot. Is my logic on this sound? I would really like to eventually have a single vessel electric keggle operation.

 

[augiedoggy]

Gotcha, so as long as it is the right element, I could (theoretically) have the heating element under a false bottom, connected to a pump and temp controller, thus allowing me to mash (in a bag) and then boil in the same pot. Is my logic on this sound? I would really like to eventually have a single vessel electric keggle operation.

well yes but a lot of people have had localized boiling and scorching issues if the setup doesnt have enough moving wort around the element.. I think theres a system like this sold that just added a pump to agitate the wort under the false bottom better to help prevent this.

 

[cegan09]

Plenty of people do that (element in the kettle for both mash and boil). Just make sure you have something to keep the bag off the element during mash to prevent burning. And you should have something to recirculate the wort to keep temps even. You can get away without recirculating, but it takes attention. Temp probe placement is a little important here.

As long as you have a low watt density (LWD) or Ultra Low Watt Density (ULWD) element your risk of scorching is pretty low.

 

[lari]

i have 3kw 220v LWD ss heating element - it has never scorched at temp over 55c (130f). at temperatures below that however it has given me problems.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I run a 5500 watt element on full power with the element under a false bottom of sorts....a cheap pizza rack will work....you just want to keep the bag off the element and youll be fine

 

[WarEagleBrewer]

Plenty of people do that (element in the kettle for both mash and boil). Just make sure you have something to keep the bag off the element during mash to prevent burning. And you should have something to recirculate the wort to keep temps even. You can get away without recirculating, but it takes attention. Temp probe placement is a little important here.

As long as you have a low watt density (LWD) or Ultra Low Watt Density (ULWD) element your risk of scorching is pretty low.

Where would YOU recommend putting the temp probe? Below the false bottom, or higher up near the grains?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Where would YOU recommend putting the temp probe? Below the false bottom, or higher up near the grains?

Below the false bottom so the bag doesnt get stuck on the probe...The grains settle to the bottom for the most part so it is near the grains anyway

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Word on the street these days is conversion happens in the first 5 to 10 minutes...so as long as your strike water is at the correct temp your probably fine anyway.

 

[cegan09]

Where would YOU recommend putting the temp probe? Below the false bottom, or higher up near the grains?

It totally depends. Note that my setup is not like this, I use a standard RIMS, so someone who actually runs like this may be better. But if it were me..

If you are recirculating, and your draw from point is very near the element, I would put the probe in that draw from flow path. that way you know the temp of the liquid that you are dropping onto the top of the grain bed. This is a good feedback point for the controller.

If you measure in the middle of the grain bed your feedback cycle will be slow to react, so the controller will heat more than it needs to and then overshoot.


No matter what it's going to take a little experimenting to learn how your particular system works and behaves.

 

[augiedoggy]

Plenty of people do that (element in the kettle for both mash and boil). Just make sure you have something to keep the bag off the element during mash to prevent burning. And you should have something to recirculate the wort to keep temps even. You can get away without recirculating, but it takes attention. Temp probe placement is a little important here.

As long as you have a low watt density (LWD) or Ultra Low Watt Density (ULWD) element your risk of scorching is pretty low.

I only commented the way i did because there is a lengthy thread on this and the OP switched to an ULWD element only to continue to have the same issue... if you do a search on "ULWD ripple scorch" it should come up in the threads active in the last months time It mentions the design of the system was changed by brew boss or whomever sold the long straight lwd elements instead of the ULWD ones because of complaints. with low flow the area under the false bottom is very susceptible to localized boiling and proteins settling on the element and scorching.

 

[augiedoggy]

Word on the street these days is conversion happens in the first 5 to 10 minutes...so as long as your strike water is at the correct temp your probably fine anyway.

Some conversion does ... Theres still a lot going on after that I believe some chains take longer than others but im no expert on this.. I have experimented with this myself and found the time and temp still matter after 10 minutes but strike temps have a huge impact.