Question about RO System

[murphyslaw]

I just bought a new house and there's a crappy old second kitchen in the basement that will make a perfect brewery.

RO has been on my radar as something I might later look into, but I found this sitting unused and disconnected in a cabinet. The previous owner had a fish tank, and theres a koi pond outside, so I assume that's what it was used for.

I emailed a picture to the company to ask what model it is. They haven't responded yet but it looks like this: http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=689. They have 3 models like that, 50GPD, 100GPD, and 150GPD. Not sure which this is.

Is it okay to use deionized water for brewing? From what I gather, it's better to drink water with minerals, but I'm not replacing my drinking water, just want to use it for brewing.

Also, can I make practical use of it without buying a tank to fill? I'd likely use it one or twice a month for roughly 10 gallons of brewing water each time.

Thanks!

 

[Dgallo]

I just bought a new house and there's a crappy old second kitchen in the basement that will make a perfect brewery.

RO has been on my radar as something I might later look into, but I found this sitting unused and disconnected in a cabinet. The previous owner had a fish tank, and theres a koi pond outside, so I assume that's what it was used for.

I emailed a picture to the company to ask what model it is. They haven't responded yet but it looks like this: http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=689. They have 3 models like that, 50GPD, 100GPD, and 150GPD. Not sure which this is.

Is it okay to use deionized water for brewing? From what I gather, it's better to drink water with minerals, but I'm not replacing my drinking water, just want to use it for brewing.

Also, can I make practical use of it without buying a tank to fill? I'd likely use it one or twice a month for roughly 10 gallons of brewing water each time.

Thanks!View attachment 647241View attachment 647242

I can only partially answer one of your questions. You do want certain minerals in you since they can have desirable flavor and mouthfeel contributions. I believe RO water is good if your tap/well water is too high in sodium or if it’s sulfurous. I had my municipal water tested and it’s a solid base to build target water profiles from so I do not need an RO System; all I have to do is dechlorinate it with 1/4 Camden tab per 5 gallons.

That being said, One major positive with RO Water is your consistency and repeatability since their will be no variation in your water chemistry.

If I were you Id see if you have a local lab that will test your tap and also the water running through the fish tank system and see what each yield.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Unless those canisters happen to be a proprietary size, you can buy generic filter cartridges on Amazon that will work just as well as the expensive name brand, just be sure to read the reviews. That being said, I've read nothing but good stuff about purewaterclub here on HBT.
Take one of the carbon block filters out to measure it and start looking online.

As for the DI, just take that unit out and toss it, then use the water coming out of the carbon post-filter.

Regardless of whether or not RO/DI water is safe to drink, it is totally unnecessary for brewing. Well, that is unless you plan on getting drunk with invertebrates I'm talking to you, spongebob.

On a side note, that is a small-ish unit, probably ~50 or so gallons per day which means its sloooow. No problem, just get an RO storage tank and connect that up so its always full when you need it. Choose one with a capacity a bit larger than what you need to brew a batch.

Unless you also found a tank laying around, you may need a bit of additional plumbing for the tank to work properly but its just a few odds and ends you could easily buy from the vendor on the sticker just hit them up online.

 

[murphyslaw]

I can only partially answer one of your questions. You do want certain minerals in you since they can have desirable flavor and mouthfeel contributions. I believe RO water is good if your tap/well water is too high in sodium or if it’s sulfurous. I had my municipal water tested and it’s a solid base to build target water profiles from so I do not need an RO System; all I have to do is dechlorinate it with 1/4 Camden tab per 5 gallons.

That being said, One major positive with RO Water is your consistency and repeatability since their will be no variation in your water chemistry.

If I were you Id see if you have a local lab that will test your tap and also the water running through the fish tank system and see what each yield.

Thanks. I did have my water tested by Ward at my old house and do alter my water profiles with each brew. I'd like to use RO to avoid any uncertainty/variation in my city water supply.

As for the DI, just take that unit out and toss it, then use the water coming out of the carbon post-filter.

Regardless of whether or not RO/DI water is safe to drink, it is totally unnecessary for brewing. Well, that is unless you plan on getting drunk with invertebrates I'm talking to you, spongebob.

Perfect. I was hoping I could just bypass the DI part.

On a side note, that is a small-ish unit, probably ~50 or so gallons per day which means its sloooow. No problem, just get an RO storage tank and connect that up so its always full when you need it. Choose one with a capacity a bit larger than what you need to brew a batch.

Unless you also found a tank laying around, you may need a bit of additional plumbing for the tank to work properly but its just a few odds and ends you could easily buy from the vendor on the sticker just hit them up online.

There's a 150GPD version that looks the same. http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=88_61_28&products_id=687. That's still probably 1.5hrs to get enough water to brew. Would have been nice if they filled in the model number!

No tank laying around, unfortunately. PWC sells a 3 gallon tank, but I'll look for a bigger tank somewhere else. Thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

That looks to be the "50gpd" model (gotta say, I'm dubious about that rating). It uses small, non-standard cartridges, and if you found it laying about dry all of the filters and membranes probably need to be replaced.

I'd toss it and start over. You can get a 100gpd unit for a couple of hundred dollars that uses industry standard cartridges...

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

That looks to be the "50gpd" model (gotta say, I'm dubious about that rating). It uses small, non-standard cartridges, and if you found it laying about dry all of the filters and membranes probably need to be replaced.

I'd toss it and start over. You can get a 100gpd unit for a couple of hundred dollars that uses industry standard cartridges...

Cheers!

And if you don't need a tank, even a 50 gpd will work for you. That's what I have, takes maybe 4+ hours to get me 7 gallons of RO water. I drain it into a blue Aquatainer. On brew day, I fill the BK then set the RO filter to refilling the aquatainer.

The throughput depends on a few factors including whether the water is softened or not as well as the temperature of the water. Colder water takes longer.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably grab a 75 gpd filter, but it just depends on how much water you need and how fast.

And I agree w/ daytrippr: just get a new one, you'll thank yourself later because you'll KNOW what you have.

 

[day_trippr]

The two largest factors wrt RO system throughput for a given system are feedwater pressure and temperature to the membrane. You can get around the first with a purposed pump (I have one on my system) and appropriate automatic shutoffs to optimize the pressure to the membrane. The latter fortunately is a second-order impact vs pressure as it can be challenging to optimize if starting with cold well water...

Cheers!

 

[Jayjay1976]

I picked up a 5 stage 100 GPD filter system for like $99 on amazon and it works great. It takes standard sized cartridges which are inexpensive so when we moved I threw a new set in and upgraded the basic RO membrane to a GE filmtec. I only have space for one 3-gallon storage tank but if I had more room I'd daisy-chain 2 more for 9 gallons of total capacity or just upgrade to a single 11 gallon unit since they're about $99 on amazon.

 

[schematix]

I only recently added a tank to my RO system but that was only because i wanted to run my ice maker off of it. Making brew day water is as simple as turning the supply water on and filling the vessel. I usually set a timer and just check on it periodically to hit the target level. For brewing purposes the under-sink size tanks (typically 3-4G, about which 2/3 is usable) aren't enough. Those are for filling water glasses and supplying ice makers. If you want to always have a full supply of brewing water on tap you need to get a 20G size tank.

 

[day_trippr]

Yes indeed, I recommend always going with standard size filter housings to avoid proprietary pricing.
fwiw, if your pre-filters are full size you could parallel a second 100gpd Filmtec membrane with the first, they're ~$37 for the HR (high rejection) models...

Cheers!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

You could always use plastic fermenter buckets or a stainless steel brew pot to store your water in. Other things to consider when buying an RO filter are a total dissolved solids meter, source water pressure gauge and membrane auto flush cycle. They add a little to the cost of an RO filter but in time you'll be thankful you had them. Besides using standard cartridges try to get a filter that has at minimum a two to one waste ratio it will produce 50% less waste water.

 

[murphyslaw]

Thanks, everyone. I guess I didn't get as lucky as I thought when I found this thing!

 

[MaxStout]

Thanks, everyone. I guess I didn't get as lucky as I thought when I found this thing!

Perhaps not, but it got you thinking about an RO system, so you're headed in the right direction.

BTW, you don't necessarily need a hard-plumbed system. You can buy one that produces 75 or 100gpd for around $150, hook it to a faucet and fill up jugs with RO. I set mine up in the laundry/utility room and connect to the sink basin faucet. I set the jug in the basin and fill (which is good as I sometimes get distracted and the jug fills and runs over). @Buckeye_Hydro sells great systems--Russ is very knowledgeable and will help you select the right one. And Buckeye is a HBT supporter.

You can use buckets or those 3 or 5 gallon water jugs from the store to keep your water.

 

[mongoose33]

I use an aquatainer (7-gallon). I drilled out the vent hole to 1/4" and the supply line fits perfectly in that hole.

 

[SEndorf]

I added the in line TDS meter.
There's something immensely satisfying watching the input at 380 and the output at 6.

 

[mongoose33]

I added the in line TDS meter.
There's something immensely satisfying watching the input at 380 and the output at 6.

I have a hand-held TDS meter. When I bought my RO system I realized I had no way to monitor it without that meter. I personally think such a meter is a necessity. Wish mine were inline!

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

...try to get a filter that has at minimum a two to one waste ratio it will produce 50% less waste water.

Let me give you a little different take on this issue. The ratio you mention is controlled by a little device called a flow restrictor. The flow restrictor can be set to provide nearly any ratio you'd like. We can even shut off the flow of concentrate (aka waste water) entirely when we build a system, BUT...
Realize that the proverbial 4:1 ratio of concentrate to permeate is something that comes from the membrane manufacturers. Because the quality of the feedwater is often unknown, the 4:1 ratio is designed to assure you get a reasonable life span from your membrane. If you go with a 2:1 and you have hard water, you'll ruin the membrane in short order. If you have soft, or softened water, it's likely you can get away with a 2:1 just fine.
We recommend customers don't blindly ask us to set their system at a 2:1 unless the conditions are right. I'd think twice about buying from a vendor who sets their systems up with a 2:1 w/o knowing some specifics about your feedwater.
Our commercial RO systems are often configured for a 1:1 ratio, but if you read the fine print you'll note that the feedwater must be soft.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

...fwiw, if your pre-filters are full size you could parallel a second 100gpd Filmtec membrane with the first, they're ~$37 for the HR (high rejection) models...

You'll want to be careful with this approach. If each membrane runs at a 4:1 ratio of concentrate to permeate, you'd be at 1000 gpd of feedwater - a flow of 1000/1440 = 0.7 gpm. The maximum flow through a single 10" x 2.5" carbon block is 1 gpm, and we recommend people don't go over 0.5 gpm. If you want to add a second 100 gpd membrane in parallel, best get an Add On Housing Kit and pop in a second high quality carbon block.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

I just bought a new house and there's a crappy old second kitchen in the basement that will make a perfect brewery.

RO has been on my radar as something I might later look into, but I found this sitting unused and disconnected in a cabinet. The previous owner had a fish tank, and theres a koi pond outside, so I assume that's what it was used for.

I emailed a picture to the company to ask what model it is. They haven't responded yet but it looks like this: http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=689. They have 3 models like that, 50GPD, 100GPD, and 150GPD. Not sure which this is.

Is it okay to use deionized water for brewing? From what I gather, it's better to drink water with minerals, but I'm not replacing my drinking water, just want to use it for brewing.

Also, can I make practical use of it without buying a tank to fill? I'd likely use it one or twice a month for roughly 10 gallons of brewing water each time.

Thanks!View attachment 647241View attachment 647242

Oh my. They used 5" x 2.5" prefilters. Ugh. Where's that :: emoji when I need it? We do have replacements for those, but this is not really a configuration I can recommend for your application. You'll want standard 10" x 2.5" housings and prefilters, and you do not need the DI filter - it is overkill for your needs.

If you want, you could just get three new housings:
https://www.buckeyehydro.com/residential-housings/
and rebuild that system.

You may want some new fittings as well. Feel free to give us call if you want help.

Russ
513-312-2343