Prepaid Smartphones - great potential for ferm control

[aslander]

I've heard about Raspberry Pi's and how people have developed software to use them for fermentation control. I had an idea that I think would be even cheaper and better if someone had android development skills and technical know-how.

You can buy pre-paid Android smartphones that are sold at a loss. For example, I have a few LG Fuel L34C phones that you can buy for about $20. They have a dual core processor, 512mb RAM, touchscreen, bluetooth, wi-fi, camera, gps etc.

These would be great to use as a ferm control like the raspberry pi. You could plug the external sensors into either the headphone jack or the usb port, and mount the phone to whatever you wanted. It would have a touch screen so you could control it, could communicate wirelessly to send data for reporting, and uses practically no power.

What do you all think of this? I'd like to help find people that would be interested in doing this, but have no clue where to start. I'm not trying to profit or anything, I think this has potential for something cheap that would have a ton of functionality. Thoughts?

 

[vincentAlpha]

Sounds like a reasonable idea but I'd think you would have issues implementing it on more than one device, considering a RPi is <$50 and offers you so much more I think I'd sooner go that route (not to mention you can then develop in any environment you want and not stuck using Android APK).

 

[lazysunday]

Sounds like a reasonable idea but I'd think you would have issues implementing it on more than one device, considering a RPi is <$50 and offers you so much more I think I'd sooner go that route (not to mention you can then develop in any environment you want and not stuck using Android APK).

I agree with this, the RPi allows a much more flexible build. Software and hardware.

 

[alphaomega]

I do think this is a decent enough idea. Why not use a cheap android device? Touch display, storage space and connectivity and small form factor.
I think it could have potential.
My suggestion is to search ebay, amazon or what ever for a device called IOIO. It (supposedly, I've never fiddled with it) gives Android devices GPIO over USB. That would probably be the quick way to start.
The proper way would be to use an Arduino Nano or similar, to have the control logic (and sensors + actuators) on a separate MCU that you communicate with. That way fermentation won't be affected by your phone crashing or rebooting.
If you go the IOIO route, it also has a microcontroller, that can be reprogrammed, so you could move control logic there, but if this is your plan, then I'd say going for an arduino in the first place, will be cheaper and easier (and probably easier for others to adopt).

It is a nice idea, but you're in for a lot of development, trust me, I like to think I know a bit about developing fermentation control. It will be fun and frustrating and you'll learn stuff. Create a github (or similar) account, and try to get a few others in on it if you can. It will help.

Good luck!

 

[soccerRef]

I am in the software / hardware industry, and have a decent amount of experience with the technologies here...

Is it possible to use those cheap android phones to accomplish what you want....yes but with added costs as mentioned to gain gpio capabilities to actually monitor and control everything....

Using a RasPi, or arduino ( or a few other similar ) would make the task easier to accomplish, but won't necessarily get you up and running at the less than $50 price tag... the RasPi for example will only be mid $30;s... but in order to control ( easily) you will need some sort of display, and a touch screen monitor isnt super cheap ( you can get them for $60-75 I believe still.)

What you can do though is use a RasPi and write an android app to be the GUI. I am currently working on my electric build in my basement, and am doing exactly that. The final plan is to have an old keg cooler as my stand, which is being re purposed as a ferm chamber. Next to the Chamber will be a re purposed chest freezer to be used as a lager chamber. On top of the Ferm chamber will be a 3 vessel system, for now 2 keggles for HLT and BK, with a cooler MLT, ( eventually to be replaced by a 3rd Keg for MLT) - I plan on building a single panel Box that all of this will be tied into. Inside the panel running most of the show will be a RasPi, which will be always running ( when any piece of the system is on) and accessible via an android application, a desktop interface and/or a web interface.

The actual brewing process will usually be ran by me using an android tablet - temperature will display on the screen, while the RasPi will handle the element on/off to get to and maintain temps... There will also be LED Pushbuttons on the panel face to show a more manual version of on/off, and also the ability to turn on/off in the case of technology issues.

This system will allow me to monitor fermentation and lagering procedure more closely in the future, as I will be able to access live monitoring no matter where I am ( provided an internet /4G signal) I will also be able to write custom lagering schedules

I will eventually get a thread together on this build / development as I progress, I currently have been in the collection of parts and pieces for the project, and am finally to the point of getting more serious about it...

 

[alphaomega]

@soccerRef:
Why write an app for the GUI? A web interface would allow you to use whatever device you want (that is not only android).
And I think you are missing a few of the key points here. A pro mini + usb serial converter clone is in the order of 5 bucks. Using a phone an provide the interface AND connectivity, for example if you don't have any wifi around you could use the mobile service or even SMS to interact.
For rementation control, I still think this isn't a half bad idea.

 

[soccerRef]

First off for just fermentation control I agree they can be re purposed and would work...Wi-fi would be a requirement though as I believe the OP was talking about using old prepaid phones that do not have phone service anymore ( or won't forever, unless the plan would be to continue to reload them? )

As for using a cheaper Arduino Mini the issue here is an increase in cost to actually interface that board directly as this simple board does not support wi-fi directly. There are options here to either connect the (2) to wifi as mentioned, ( cost) or to buy cables/sensors etc to interface between the 2, and I honestly have not looked at this cost... there will also need to be some sort of relay involved here, not very costly, but another piece to the puzzle Again it all can be done

------

Now to your other question as to why write an android application compared to a web interface - for the above project, sure a web interface would be more than alright if going the route of using hardware to interface with ( if going the route of more direct with phone only with some sort of interface through headphone jack, a native app would be necessary)

My larger scale project though will be controlling / monitoring everything from the brewing process, ferm, and lagering.... could a web interface work here, yes it could. My main reason for planning on writing separate applications for each device is simply better control and interaction. Web interfaces on android work alright when done correctly, but a native application will work much cleaner / efficiently / ability to do a few things I prefer for layouts and how I want things to work mainly in the brewing process. ( if i was only monitoring the ferm and lager process I would do a web interface only). Another advantage is if wifi is down or not working for whatever reason, I have the ability to communicate between my RasPi and Tablet with bluetooth as well. At the end of the day as I write all of the code for this project, and get into it in more detail there will most likely be parts and pieces sitting on my web server in order to allow remote access to temps ( not brewing but the rest). The addition of writing a desktop application to also control everything is just because for me once the logic is there, porting it over to another device is fairy simple... and I like the idea of having the ability to work on my brew rig in multiple ways.... overkill yes!

 

[alphaomega]

@soccerRef:
You can communicate with the arduino via serial, you can also use an HC05 or similar cheap bluetooth to serial adapter to talk to the arduino. As I said you want the arduino to be autonomous and the phone to handle input/output. It can be done and done very cheap. You do not need the arduino to be wifi enabled. Sure you need a relay or two, but relay modules are also very cheap.

I'm not going to argue with you on how you implement your own project, you are of course free to do as you want and go the route you think is best for you.
Jusr saying if you don't need it to be an app (as you say if you plan on having bluetooth connectivity for example), there is no need to make things more complicated and less flexible.

 

[wbarber69]

To follow up on alphaomegas post. Go check out the threads here in hbt about brewpi. I think between fuzzywuzzy and day_tripper there are at least 3 now. One about building the Arduino/raspi controllers. Another detailing how to use bluetooth control... And on and on.

 

[vincentAlpha]

I don't see any additional costs for using a a RPi short of the temp sensor/relays and a PSU really (if it has a wireless adaptor, I can no longer remember if that is standard but even then a standard ethernet connection will do, just another wire to run). You don't need a screen for the RPi which would be a big cost, as even if you want a GUI just write your software to be friendly over X and control over SSH from your laptop with X forwarding or better yet KISS and use plain-text. X forwarding can be clunky over the internet but over a local network it is pretty speedy so long as you arn't asking it to stream video or anything insane. I know for ferm control I'd be more then happy to just send a single command from my terminal to set my temp and another to read it out to me. Heck it wouldn't take much to just have some homebrew software that logs temps at a regular interval and plot something using gnuplot or just use the temp fetching command with a cron event and dump the output into a file on local machine. Sure you'd have to exchange RSA keys for password-less ssh and write a bit of python code but it really isn't too tricky.

 

[wbarber69]

Or you could just use brewpi

 

[vincentAlpha]

Or you could just use brewpi

But where's the fun in buying something already built when with a bit of hacking and some free time you can do it yourself the way you want

 

[alphaomega]

*sigh*
Yes, or you could use PLC control, or a laptop, or build it from scratch using only vintage russian components...

 

[vincentAlpha]

*sigh*
Yes, or you could use PLC control, or a laptop, or build it from scratch using only vintage russian components...

We're not talking extremes here. I used to play with relays and low voltage stuff all the time cause thats what I used to work in. I'd sooner build something that works for my setup then try to fit my setup to someone else's controller and I'm sure lots of people would too. Just like lots of people build their own chiller, same logic applies, sure I could have gone and bought mine and it may not have cost that much more but why should I when it is easy enough to build myself. Half the fun is in the process not the result.

 

[wbarber69]

But where's the fun in buying something already built when with a bit of hacking and some free time you can do it yourself the way you want

I built my own brewpi. It's just the software that is premade and I had to hack that too.

 

[alphaomega]

Actually, my reply was in response to wbarber69 and not you vincentAlpha... You just happened to sneak a post in between as I was writing
The point was that the thread is about the prospect of using an old android phone as a means to control fermentation, as it has connectivity and screen (input/output).
Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: aaaaargh!!!!!