Potential infections from BIAB

[cochised]

Evening all
Have done 2 BIAB batches, a SMASH Citra and a recipe kit American Amber.

Citra smash fermented well but noticed an off taste when I kegged it.
Had a more experienced brewer taste it after a few weeks and he said it was infected but couldn't identify it.
In fairness it was really bad, first beer I've ever had to dump even though I've had some stinkers in the past, they were still 'drinkable'

Kegged the amber today. Similar off taste, but nowhere near as bad. But I'm still worried so will let it carb for a week and see how it is.

In the meant time I've done a couple of partials and extracts, fermented same way as the BIABs and no off tastes at all. While not world beating beers they are definitely fine

So question is could it be something in my BIAB method?
Using a Blichmann 10 gallon pot and propane burner, cooling with immersion chiller

I realise almost any number of factors can cause off tastes etc but anything in my BIAB approach I wonder?
Thanks

 

[Bobby_M]

PH issues most likely. A concentrated mash will react to water chemistry different from a thin full volume mash.

 

[cochised]

Something I've given no consideration to I must admit, was gonna get a few more brews under my belt before looking into water treatments

But this might speed that up

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Are the BIAB batches your only attempts at all-grain? Do you treat your water for chlorine/chloramine? If not, they can leave a strong band-aid flavor and I believe it is more of an issue with all-grain brewing. Otherwise, since BIAB is all hot side and pre-boil, it is hard to imagine something there causing an infection.

It might be water or pH related, but that depends a lot on your starting water. I have just started learning water chemistry after brewing decent all-grain batches for over 20 years. For me, water chemistry changes have been an improvement but a minor improvement, but my tap water does not suck for brewing...at least as long as I add Campden to treat the chloramine.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Otherwise, since BIAB is all hot side and pre-boil, it is hard to imagine something there causing an infection.

^^^This. Whatever the issue, it's not BIAB specific. Is there a piece of equipment that you use after the boil with BIAB that you don't use with your partial mashes, that could be harbouring some nasties?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

PH issues most likely. A concentrated mash will react to water chemistry different from a thin full volume mash.

Not in a way that gives an undrinkable beer that tastes infected.

 

[cochised]

Yeah, was trying to think if it was something I did post boil that I don't do when doing extracts etc and couldn't think of anything.
Use same chiller etc
I don't treat the water, it is from a fresh water well at the in laws.
Plus I use it for the extracts brews too.
I'll let it sit for a week or so in the keg and see, might come round

 

[GoeHaarden]

Plus I use it for the extracts brews too.

It doesn't quite work like that. I'm pretty sure you can use any water that tastes good for extract. The same doesn't hold true for all-grain. My tap water tastes good, but it sucks for all grain brewing.

Water is a lot more important within the mash, and the water profile can have a dramatic effect on the beer's flavor. You can even extract tannins if your pH is off, regardless of temp. Tannins can give you a rather bitter flavor as well.

You can try to do a batch with RO or distilled water. Plug in your batch info on Bru'n Water and add the minerals as directed to match target water profile. I usually just use the srm based profiles (yellow, amber, dark). I started doing this a few years ago and my beer improved dramatically. I don't even check pH, I just trust it.. If you still have the off flavor, then you can reject your water as the cause.

 

[badmajon]

I don't know why, but sometimes this happens. I really would not worry about it unless it happens over and over again. I've been brewing for 9 years and this happened to me perhaps 2-3 times. One time I remember I was particularly lazy and neglected to rinse and sanitize my fermenter after using it to collect first runnings. It got wild yeast in it and the beer had a horrible funky taste. The other time, well, I never figured it out, but my beer ended up tasting like bandaids. I repeated the same recipe and process the next week and the beer was fine.

People will say you have to do this and that and go to all these pains or else your beer will be crap but really home brewing is a really easy hobby compared to some others (like, er, baking artisan bread, curing meat or playing the fiddle) and getting it right really isn't that hard. It's just sometimes 'stuff' happens. Just like life.

 

[cochised]

Yeah, obviously could just be a bit of bad luck or bad prep as a one off but trying to make sure I don't let it happen each time I BIAB, shame to see ingredients and time go to waste

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I don't treat the water, it is from a fresh water well at the in laws.

Given that you are using well water, I think there could be some validity to the water being an issue. It would be worth doing a batch with RO/Distilled and adding minerals. You could also just brew a batch with "Spring/Drinking" water. You may or may not know what minerals are in the water (in the US this info is not usually on the label) and the mineral levels might not be ideal, but it should be decent to brew a batch of beer with.

 

[ESBrewer]

How does it taste? You are boiling without lid, did you check the mash/sparge pH? When doing all grain you want the pH to stay below pH6 for the entire mash & sparge, it tends to rise during sparging unless you control pH. pH depends on the water & grain, too. But if the water tastes good and pH remains under control, the beer should be fine if not the tastiest possible. Pay attention to cold side: sanitation, fermentation temp (start low, finish a bit higher), yeast health & pitching rate (high enough) and give it a rest post fermentation. Healthy and full fermentation will help avoid diacetyl, fusels, acetaldehyde etc. There are so many reasons for off tastes.

What type of yeast, did you make a starter or was it dry yeast?

 

[cochised]

Taste was very hard to describe, smelled a bit off but truly awful when tasted.

I do no sparge BIABs but haven't checked PH levels etc. Think I'll start doing that though, always intended to but just getting back into brewing after a hiatus of a few years and worried about other parts of the process

I actually did use store bought spring water for latest one so will see if it turns out ok.

Thanks for advice people

 

[Bill Huelsman]

Look up Ward labs, and send a water sample. I'm totally thinking this is a brewing water issue. You'll need to know what's up with your water in order to treat it. Are you a AHA member? Just read a article in a past issue on water treatment, from the November/December 2015 issue. Very well written, easy to understand.

 

[Bill Huelsman]

 

[cochised]

Quick update:
Kegged on Sunday and put about 10 psi on it to let it carb a bit slower.
Sample tonight. Slight hint of an off taste but nowhere near as bad, absolutely drinkable but I'd obviously like better than that.
Have a feeling the posts about water treatment are in the right ball park but I think my yeast and fermentation management need a bit of improvement too so gonna put a bit more planning into next brew

Cheers all

 

[Mic Carp]

Quick update:
Kegged on Sunday and put about 10 psi on it to let it carb a bit slower.
Sample tonight. Slight hint of an off taste but nowhere near as bad, absolutely drinkable but I'd obviously like better than that.
Have a feeling the posts about water treatment are in the right ball park but I think my yeast and fermentation management need a bit of improvement too so gonna put a bit more planning into next brew

Cheers all

OK I am curious as to whether you figured out your issue? did the spring water help? was it a water issue afterall?

 

[cochised]

Alas nothing to report yet, 3 month old child in the house so no recent brew days.

Hopefully ready to go again soon so will defitinely report results