Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[PCABrewing]

40 years? Forty years ago we barely had computers.

Well, they weren't as widely used as today but they definitely were in use AND controlling test labs at Argonne National Laboratory.
The batteries that were being tested there were the seed of the batteries in use today for EV's. Big difference is that they operated at a several hundred degrees.
They also had a car that they had converted to electric as a prototype test bed for EV development. This is back in the last half of the 1970s.
The technology hasn't evolved as quickly as you might think.
There is also the work on Hydrogen fuel cells that has been going on just as long.
Maybe about the time the charging network gets built-out fuel cells could come to the forefront.
Political focus can change the trajectory of technology, for better or worse.

 

[Airborneguy]

Hydrogen has one major downside: you have to go somewhere else to get it.

After living the EV life, I’ll never buy another vehicle that I cannot fuel at home. Losing that amazing convenience is a non-starter for me.

 

[Kent88]

After living the EV life, I’ll never buy another vehicle that I cannot fuel at home. Losing that amazing convenience is a non-starter for me.

It really is an amazing convenience!

 

[PCABrewing]

Hydrogen has one major downside: you have to go somewhere else to get it.

Well, most of my trips are local, so I could do just fine with the home charging mode.

But when I do go farther it is usually 3-700 miles, many times into a country (rural) setting where I would not be likely to find a charging station (for now). In those cases, I am stuck with the same issue of "have to go somewhere else to get it".

 

[Airborneguy]

It will be interesting to see if the car companies (and the market) can support two technologies going forward, or if one - most likely electric - can indeed fit all needs eventually.

I roadtrip often (I’m sort of on one now). I know there’s tradeoffs, but people tend to make decisions based on worst case/edge case rather than as Kent said, what they actually need their purchase to do the vast majority of the time.

For me, it fits 99% of my driving needs BETTER than ICE, so I am willing to accept the longer stops on roadtrips.

 

[PCABrewing]

It will be interesting to see if the car companies (and the market) can support two technologies going forward, or if one - most likely electric - can indeed fit all needs eventually.

I roadtrip often (I’m sort of on one now). I know there’s tradeoffs, but people tend to make decisions based on worst case/edge case rather than as Kent said, what they actually need their purchase to do the vast majority of the time.

For me, it fits 99% of my driving needs BETTER than ICE, so I am willing to accept the longer stops on roadtrips.

Hey I've got an idea inspired by the "Faster with Finnegan show on Motortrend"
I can pretty-much always find diesel. Maybe I pull a trailer with a little diesel generator on it so I can recharge anywhere (except in California).

 

[day_trippr]

Like this?

 

[Kent88]

I know there’s tradeoffs, but people tend to make decisions based on worst case/edge case rather than as Kent said, what they actually need their purchase to do the vast majority of the time.

For me, it fits 99% of my driving needs BETTER than ICE, so I am willing to accept the longer stops on roadtrips.

Exactly, people focus on the outliers, and get really grouchy when it doesn't live up to those outliers this very moment. I know some who saw how EVs couldn't handle their outliers years ago and refuse to look at the charging network around them or check out the range of new vehicles, they just keep insisting that EVs are terrible and always will be.

 

[Airborneguy]

It’s maddening. In my usual circles, I’m a major outlier for having bought one. I deal with the naysayers daily. I’ve taken to thanking them for paying my roadtaxes.

 

[bleme]

Kind of OT, but we have quite a few Teslas in my area. I see about a dozen a day on my 30 minute drive. We also have a lot of really terrible drivers but I realized the other day that I have never been cut off by a Tesla. I never see them weaving in and out of traffic on the freeway. I've never had one refuse to let me merge from an on-ramp. I've never seen one cut across 3 lanes to make a turn. I can't say that about ANY other make of car. I'd have to say that Tesla drivers are, in general, the most courteous drivers on the road...

 

[sibelman]

When we bought our first EV - Nissan LEAF - ten years ago, we knew it would suck as a road car, and simply rented for our occasional vacations. But it was a fantastic city vehicle, which made it a fine fit for our needs.

Our second EV - Chevy BoltEV - works well for road trips, but those definitely require planning for charging. A charger failure at one location did create some serious worry, but that was the exception.

Of course, even before today's gas prices, it's been great to do almost all charging at home - I haven't been to a gas station recently!

 

[Airborneguy]

Home charging is a game changer. Except for road trips, I’ve never HAD to stop at a public charger. I’ve done it a few times by choice when a free one is available.

 

[sibelman]

On a different note, I love how quiet EVs are. Then there's my feelings about folks who need their vehicle to be loud enough to wake (or at least annoy) everyone in a mile-wide swath as they tool down the road. But that's mostly off-topic

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Kind of OT, but we have quite a few Teslas in my area. I see about a dozen a day on my 30 minute drive. We also have a lot of really terrible drivers but I realized the other day that I have never been cut off by a Tesla. I never see them weaving in and out of traffic on the freeway. I've never had one refuse to let me merge from an on-ramp. I've never seen one cut across 3 lanes to make a turn. I can't say that about ANY other make of car. I'd have to say that Tesla drivers are, in general, the most courteous drivers on the road...

Yeah, FSD is less aggressive than human drivers. It has to be for safety reasons.

Oh, wait... You were assuming those owners were actively driving their cars???

 

[passedpawn]

Home charging is a game changer. Except for road trips, I’ve never HAD to stop at a public charger. I’ve done it a few times by choice when a free one is available.

Sure, charging at home is simpler than filling at a gas station. I'd love that.

But I only need to refill every 2 or 3 weeks, so it's not a big deal. Game changer? Maybe for some, but if you work from home, or are retired, it can't possibly matter much. Right?

 

[passedpawn]

In case anyone is keeping score... I'd love to have an electric truck. Maybe one day. I drive a ram 1500 laramie longhorn. When it's available in an electric, I'll probably trade it in. That would be awesome, actually It does have an electric start feature, but that's only to let it die at ever light, then restart when you release the brake (a feature that drove me nuts for a few months, but I've gotten used to it).

 

[Airborneguy]

Sure, charging at home is simpler than filling at a gas station. I'd love that.

But I only need to refill every 2 or 3 weeks, so it's not a big deal. Game changer? Maybe for some, but if you work from home, or are retired, it can't possibly matter much. Right?

Sure if I barely drove I’d have a pickup. I do anywhere from 30 to 100 miles every day though, 7 days a week. My Tesla pays for itself and no more stopping for gas at least once, sometimes 3 times a week.

 

[NeoBrew]

I drive a truck as well. (At least it is a hybrid!) I actually own 2 plug in hybrids that others in my family drive.

I drive a considerable amount for my work, about 30K per year typically. I've thought a lot about getting something smaller and plug in to drive around for work and save the truck for towing the boat, supply runs, etc. The problem I have is that my work requires me to drive long day trips frequently. I might spend 6 hours in the car in a day with only a couple hours of meetings. I don't think today's electric cards are quite where I need them to be for that. The thing I can't wrap my head around is buying a smaller, cheaper second car to drive for work, but paying only about $500 less in gas yet hundreds more in car payments and insurance per month. Even with an electric car the cost to recharge is a lot less, but the time spent finding charging stations and charging up on a trip would be a deal breaker for me.

I think it makes more sense for me to take that differential and bite the bullet on gas and depreciation and replace my truck every few years. Tell me I'm wrong?

I firmly believe I'll be all electric at some point. I'm considering a major solar install on my house. It would be very cool to charge the cars for "free". I'm just not sure my needs and the technology have quite reached a meeting point yet.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I drive a considerable amount for my work, about 30K per year typically. I've thought a lot about getting something smaller and plug in to drive around for work and save the truck for towing the boat, supply runs, etc. The problem I have is that my work requires me to drive long day trips frequently. I might spend 6 hours in the car in a day with only a couple hours of meetings. I don't think today's electric cards are quite where I need them to be for that. The thing I can't wrap my head around is buying a smaller, cheaper second car to drive for work, but paying only about $500 less in gas yet hundreds more in car payments and insurance per month. Even with an electric car the cost to recharge is a lot less, but the time spent finding charging stations and charging up on a trip would be a deal breaker for me.

I think it makes more sense for me to take that differential and bite the bullet on gas and depreciation and replace my truck every few years. Tell me I'm wrong?

I firmly believe I'll be all electric at some point. I'm considering a major solar install on my house. It would be very cool to charge the cars for "free". I'm just not sure my needs and the technology have quite reached a meeting point yet.

Yeah, it's all situational. I knew a guy a decade or so ago that was changing jobs to one which would be a 70 mile commute each way. He drove a giant Chrysler 300 (the one with the big V8, maybe SRT-8??). He ended up buying a Honda Civic just for his commute, because the gas savings each month would be more than the monthly payment + insurance on the car.

A pure BEV probably isn't right for you if you can't regularly get you're entire driving done in a single day w/o recharging. A PHEV isn't really an improvement for you either, because you'll spend 95% of your daily driving in ICE mode anyway.

But an idea for you would be a small and relatively inexpensive commuter car that is much more efficient. Civic, Prius, something like that. And if you replace that every few years while getting very long life out of your truck (because you're putting 5000 miles/yr instead of 30K) and rarely if ever needing to replace the truck. You can get 12+ years out of a truck if you're barely driving it, instead of trying to replace it every 3-4 years as you get north of 100K miles.

Your usage is ideal for two vehicles. The vehicle you need for the exception (towing boat, etc) is massively inefficient for almost all of the daily driving you do. And you do enough driving to justify the savings. But the second vehicle being a BEV doesn't fit your needs with current range. An efficient ICEV makes a lot more sense.

 

[Bilsch]

There is also the work on Hydrogen fuel cells that has been going on just as long.
Maybe about the time the charging network gets built-out fuel cells could come to the forefront.
Political focus can change the trajectory of technology, for better or worse.

The problem with hydrogen is you can’t change the physics of round trip efficiency, which for H2 is less than half as efficient as storing the electrons in batteries. Battery chemistry can improve but the cost of hydrogen electrolysis cannot.

 

[Kent88]

Hey Bilsch. I don't think I have seen you around this thread lately. Hope you are doing well.

 

[Airborneguy]

The other problem with hydrogen is that you cannot get it at home. Blech.

 

[PCABrewing]

The other problem with hydrogen is that you cannot get it at home. Blech.

Well I can't get gasoline, diesel, natural gas, propane or electricity at home without there being a system to deliver it.
I never said it was a simple proposition. The simple ones have already been developed, starting with the horse.
And why assume that it needs to be delivered at home? If that's the most effective or efficient method then great, work-out the issues and do it.

 

[Kent88]

The thing that hydrogen has going for it is the refueling speed. With fast battery charging systems improving quickly, that won't be a big issue in a few years.

 

[PCABrewing]

The thing that hydrogen has going for it is the refueling speed. With fast battery charging systems improving quickly, that won't be a big issue in a few years.

I think the key is to ensure that we continue to develop the promising technologies and fund the research to find new techs as well as improve what we have.
It is encouraging to see the Waste Management trucks running on natural gas. I don't know that they are using the captured methane from their land fills to run them but I know they are capturing it.

Battery swaps on the fly is another interesting concept. It requires standardization of electrical and mechanical interfaces though. Reflect on the industry BS that accompanied VHS and Beta or DVD-HD VS Blueray.
Like changing the battery of your cordless drill for a fresh one at a re-powering depot (future truck stop?).
Conceivably you could swap-in a fresh battery pack quicker than recharging the built-in pack.
It all requires cooperation. You're not going to slide that pack out and in by hand.

 

[Airborneguy]

Well I can't get gasoline, diesel, natural gas, propane or electricity at home without there being a system to deliver it.
I never said it was a simple proposition. The simple ones have already been developed, starting with the horse.
And why assume that it needs to be delivered at home? If that's the most effective or efficient method then great, work-out the issues and do it.

There's no sense in arguing esoterically. It's a fact that modern homes can deliver electricity with little to no modifications needed. This is possible, for most people, right now.

I'm not "assuming" the fuel system has to be delivered to the home. I'm unequivocally stating that most people, once they experience this sort of system, will not want to go back.

I supposed because I live the "EV life", it’s simply become impossible to fathom going back to a system where I have to obtain my vehicle’s fuel somewhere else. I absolutely hate having to pump gas into my wife's car now. As simple as it seems, once you see the "other side", having to get gas is an inconvenience.

The problem with the EV/ICE debate is that those who don’t have EV experience cannot understand the immense convenience they provide under MOST conditions.

ICE cars are so ingrained into our culture that the brain automatically equates equivalent processes to the decades of ICE experiences most people have. When they’re considering the same process, but with an EV, they’re doing it through that lens.

This is why so many ICE people will say “I’m not waiting that long for my car to charge.” They simply cannot fathom that 99% of the time they’ll never “wait” because charging happens while the car is idle anyway. They’re too conditioned to the ICE mindset of making a trip to specifically fuel up. From that angle, of course it would seem as if ICE is "faster" and more convenient.

 

[Airborneguy]

I think the key is to ensure that we continue to develop the promising technologies and fund the research to find new techs as well as improve what we have.
It is encouraging to see the Waste Management trucks running on natural gas. I don't know that they are using the captured methane from their land fills to run them but I know they are capturing it.

Battery swaps on the fly is another interesting concept. It requires standardization of electrical and mechanical interfaces though. Reflect on the industry BS that accompanied VHS and Beta or DVD-HD VS Blueray.
Like changing the battery of your cordless drill for a fresh one at a re-powering depot (future truck stop?).
Conceivably you could swap-in a fresh battery pack quicker than recharging the built-in pack.
It all requires cooperation. You're not going to slide that pack out and in by hand.

This was something I argued for vehemently BEFORE I experience EV life.

Now, if I had to make a choice between a car that could ONLY be charged from a cord or a car that could ONLY be battery swapped, I would NEVER buy a battery swap-only vehicle. It's inconvenient to go back to a scenario where fueling must be done somewhere else besides at home.

Now having BOTH technologies would be awesome (price would factor into the decision of course), but the point is that the convenience of charging at home is something you have to experience to understand.

There’s nothing like it, and I’m willing to bet that most experienced EV owners would agree with me.

 

[Airborneguy]

Ugh i’ll edit when i get home

EDIT: above posts updated.

 

[Kent88]

I've been really interested in EVs that can battery swap during road trips. Now I just see it as a potentially easier way for mechanics to work on an EV.

Once charging stations are common, battery capacity / range reaches a certain point, and charging speed reaches a certain threshold, battery swapping as a potentially common means to recharge will become completely silly.

 

[Airborneguy]

As a dual system, it would be awesome. I like to discuss it in terms of ONLY to stress to ICE people how convenient charging at home is, because most of the time, they're discussing battery swaps only because that type of system replicates the ICE system of "going to a gas station".

 

[PCABrewing]

There's no sense in arguing esoterically. It's a fact that modern homes can deliver electricity with little to no modifications needed.

.

My point was that the infrastructure had to be developed and it grew from there. The early caves didn't have 220

Whatever proves to be the next big thing will need design and implementation.
For now that is the EV support infrastructure that is being built. And that is most practical today, though the grid needs to grow as well.
No worries about the grid long-term because our demand for power at home doesn't look likely to decline anytime soon.
Tomorrow there may be something different.

Who knows, someday we might all be brewing with electricity.
I have stated earlier that I could easily use an all-electric vehicle. I seldom drive 100 miles a week. Maybe in the next 5 - 10 years when my Corolla gives-up the ghost I'll replace it with a more effective option. That might be all-electric.

 

[PCABrewing]

As a dual system, it would be awesome. I like to discuss it in terms of ONLY to stress to ICE people how convenient charging at home is, because most of the time, they're discussing battery swaps only because that type of system replicates the ICE system of "going to a gas station".

I look at it more as a solution to range limitations and charging time. Though batteries do degrade and a swapp-able pack, maybe a leased item would facilitate that as well. Could take the burden of battery long-term maintenance and shift it to the overlords.
I definitely agree that it should be a dual system. swap only would be a non-starter.

 

[Airborneguy]

I look at it more as a solution to range limitations and charging time. Though batteries do degrade and a swapp-able pack, maybe a leased item would facilitate that as well. Could take the burden of battery long-term maintenance and shift it to the overlords.
I definitely agree that it should be a dual system. swap only would be a non-starter.

Leasing could be a benefit of such a system, though in the end the math would still benefit the producer. But spreading that cost out as opposed to dealing with a one time, huge cost burden, could be a way to encourage adoption by mitigating that fear.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Battery swaps on the fly is another interesting concept. It requires standardization of electrical and mechanical interfaces though. Reflect on the industry BS that accompanied VHS and Beta or DVD-HD VS Blueray.
Like changing the battery of your cordless drill for a fresh one at a re-powering depot (future truck stop?).
Conceivably you could swap-in a fresh battery pack quicker than recharging the built-in pack.
It all requires cooperation. You're not going to slide that pack out and in by hand.

Not gonna happen in passenger vehicles. The battery packs are a stressed member of the frame in order to improve rigidity. Making them a removable item means that you have to massively bulk up the frame of the vehicle to reach the same rigidity, increasing vehicle weight and decreasing efficiency. It likely means that you also have to build a much more durable frame for the battery to have it withstand repeated insertion and removal. Again more weight, and less efficiency. All that increased weight means more load on tires, more load on drivetrain, more load on the road. It's one thing to do it in a cordless drill, it's another to do it in a multi-ton vehicle. And this is largely unnecessary in a world where most EV owners charge at home and it's only the rare exception that they need to figure it out for a road trip.

It's not a cooperation problem; it's an engineering trade-off that is unnecessary and unwise to make. Charging infrastructure is the answer, not battery swaps.

I haven't really looked at it closely when you think about vehicles like long-haul trucks, though. The battery and frame weight of the tractor on an electric 18-wheeler compared to the overall combined weight of a full trailer load, along with the much bigger size of a tractor, may make it viable there. Especially since those trucks make money when they're rolling, not when they're charging. What you give up in efficiency may be regained in what you can actually earn per day.

But it doesn't make sense in a typical passenger car.

 

[Old Medic]

I have several friends and family that have had an EV, and not one of them plan on getting another. We are out in the country and tow stuff too.

 

[Kent88]

I have an uncle who has a Tesla, and he ordered a pair of ID.4s this summer, which should be delivered sometime soon. He will probably have to drive them to his cabin at some point. He lives over 100 miles from it.

The guy I spoke to before buying my Volt, a farmer in the rural midwest, was so happy with the Volt he'd been driving for over 200,000 miles that he wanted to buy another. Helped make my decision easier.

I'm so happy with my Volt, I was trying to test drive a Bolt EUV in late October but couldn't find a dealership in the area that still had one. Apparently they've been selling lately.

Towing is a work in progress, but towing also makes ICE vehicles really inefficient.

 

[Brooothru]

There's no sense in arguing esoterically. It's a fact that modern homes can deliver electricity with little to no modifications needed. This is possible, for most people, right now.

I'm not "assuming" the fuel system has to be delivered to the home. I'm unequivocally stating that most people, once they experience this sort of system, will not want to go back.

I supposed because I live the "EV life", it’s simply become impossible to fathom going back to a system where I have to obtain my vehicle’s fuel somewhere else. I absolutely hate having to pump gas into my wife's car now. As simple as it seems, once you see the "other side", having to get gas is an inconvenience.

The problem with the EV/ICE debate is that those who don’t have EV experience cannot understand the immense convenience they provide under MOST conditions.

ICE cars are so ingrained into our culture that the brain automatically equates equivalent processes to the decades of ICE experiences most people have. When they’re considering the same process, but with an EV, they’re doing it through that lens.

This is why so many ICE people will say “I’m not waiting that long for my car to charge.” They simply cannot fathom that 99% of the time they’ll never “wait” because charging happens while the car is idle anyway. They’re too conditioned to the ICE mindset of making a trip to specifically fuel up. From that angle, of course it would seem as if ICE is "faster" and more convenient.

100%^^^

I ‘backdoor’d’ into electric when grandkid #3 arrived at my son and daughter-in-laws front door. We swapped one of our Volvos (5 pax, 3 kid seats) for their Prius Hybrid. Now I have to share with SWMBO’d for around-town driving privileges. Volvo #2 sits in the garage 95% of the time. We were reluctant at first. Now we’re unabashed advocates.

The short range (~35 miles/charge) has not proven to be an issue. The biggest pain has been having to drive in ICE mode every 6 months or so to burn off the 9 gallons of dinosaur juice before it goes stale. Then we have to do the same thing with the ICE Volvo, since our out-of-town trips get taken in our diesel Mercedes Sprinter motor home. Can’t wait for the EV Sprinter chassis by Benz to get up fitted into to a Class B motor home. I’ll be first in line.

 

[Kent88]

I had to go out of my way to find my car. Back when I learned about Volts I had no chance of affording one, and I was buying hand-me-downs from my parents. This car was the first one my wife and I bought with no input from our dads. Actually, my dad goes out of his way to tell me that he hates my car, thinks it's stupid. He's going to be really upset when my next one is a full BEV.

A family member gave us a very nice (and appreciated) gift around the time that new Volts were becoming scarce, so after some searching I found a very gently used one.

I've had some family gripe about my car. I don't care. I like my car. I enjoy driving it. My wife even seems to have a better attitude about it after driving it to work for a few summers. If she had completely hated it, we wouldn't have bought it, but she was definitely skeptical about it. Now when I suggest to her that I want a true BEV for our next vehicle she seems comfortable with it.

 

[Airborneguy]

My wife refuses to touch my car. It’s way too fast for her.

 

[Kent88]

What made me realize that my wife's opinion of our car had significantly improved was when she told me about racing a Mazda at a stop and go light.