Please help diagnose my first AG brewing mistakes.

[skokott]

I brewed the "Current Best Clone" of Heady Topper here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=390082

The result based on my brewing experience was pretty impressive. I had the help of a very experienced brewer so I can't really take much credit. All mistakes were my own.

What I found was a relatively high ABV beer with notable tropical notes and hop flavor that was neither sharp nor overwhelming.

I hit my finishing gravity of 1.012 pretty on the nose and it's a pleasant drinkable beer.

However I find the body to be a little thin, it's not sweet enough, the hops are a little too light (though I love how that just like in HT they are "integrated" into the beer rather than d-slapping you across the face like many west coast IPAs). It's also cloudy AF. Would also like a tiny bit more mango/tropical flavor.

Yeast I used was 200B Vermont and 100B Burlington liquid packs.

I'm thinking the following would remedy:
1. mash at higher temp. I did go to 155 which is already high but maybe not high enough?
2. Irish moss? (I did cool very quickly w/ immersion wort chiller)
3. Add even more hops
4. Add some tropical fruit into fermentation

 

[bowserm]

It could be your water profile. I find sometimes I need to add stuff to my water to give it that extra kick for IPA's.
If it's thin, it could have been mashed too low, or you sparged with too much water.

 

[whip]

Before I offer my .02, let me say this; Your the brewmaster so you really didn't make any mistakes. Ask yourself some simple questions. Do you like it? Yes! Would you brew it again? Judging by your own review I'd say the answer is also, Yes!

So make some small changes and ENJOY !

What I would have done differently.
Build a 2 stage yeast starter
Mash at 148 F
Add a Whirfloc tablet @ 15mins boil time
Wyeast yeast nutrient @ 10
Add a little lactose into the boil around 7 minutes for residual sweetness after fermentation and added mouth feel.

I just brewed the Tits-UP IIPA recipe I got from this forum for a friend who loves IPA's. I don't like them. Mine was a little cloudy also, but he called me 1 gulp into his first bottle screaming mad with dissapointment about only getting 2 cases because he said it was "THAT GOOD!":rockin:

So relax, enjoy the fruits of your brew days!

 

[skokott]

Yes would most definitely brew again. Very drinkable!

Thanks for the advice. Why would you say 2 stage starter? I did pitch 300B cells..?
Why would you advise lower rather than higher Mash ? Isn't higher mash for more unfermentable (sweet) sugar?
What's Whirfloc? I added CaCl, CaSO and Lactic acid to bring down the pH. Also some yeast nutrient 24 hours after pitching.

Interesting idea on the lactose. Would that not "wake up" the yeast and have them chew it up into alcohol rather than adding to the sweetness?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[skokott]

bowserm, are you saying I may have sparged with too much water because that would have brought up the pH or something? (I'm brand new to AG)

 

[prrriiide]

Mash thickness will also affect the mouthfeel.

You could also add some flaked oats. The additional protein will help the mouthfeel, but could also add to haze. For the cloudiness/haze, you can add gelatin to the secondary.

Since you like the beer, I would suggest brewing it over and over, changing one aspect at a time until you hit exactly what you are looking for. Even if it isn't EXACTLY what you are looking for each time, you still get 5g of tasty IPA every time! I will generously offer my services as tasting guinea pig for any amounts you don't want.

 

[kh54s10]

Yes would most definitely brew again. Very drinkable!

Thanks for the advice. Why would you say 2 stage starter? I did pitch 300B cells..?
Why would you advise lower rather than higher Mash ? Isn't higher mash for more unfermentable (sweet) sugar?
What's Whirfloc? I added CaCl, CaSO and Lactic acid to bring down the pH. Also some yeast nutrient 24 hours after pitching.

Interesting idea on the lactose. Would that not "wake up" the yeast and have them chew it up into alcohol rather than adding to the sweetness?

Thanks for your thoughts.

A 2 stage starter is only necessary if your starter vessel will not hold the volume required to get the proper cell counts. Or when using really old yeast it helps to make a first round of lower gravity starter wort to get them going in a less stressful medium.

You are right about the mash temperature though a sweeter beer might still have a thin mouthfeel.

Whirlfloc is a clearing agent made from seaweed, I think it is a tablet form of Irish Moss. It coagulates proteins etc in the boil so that they settle to the bottom, what transfers to the fermenter will also compact in the trub more.

Did you add the CaCl, CaSO, and lactic acid based on a water report, or just wing it. If you don't know what you are starting from, additions could throw things way out of balance.

I agree with the advice that if you like the beer but want to make it better, look at making one change at a time. If you throw the book at it and it is better you won't know what made the change.

 

[skokott]

The water treatment additions were made from the water report by my experienced brewer friend. I was definitely happy with the fact that the hops weren't harsh and I think that contributed.

 

[brewshki]

Are you worried about the haze? I thought heady topper was a pretty hazy beer (never had it just going on what I have heard). I agree with what has been said about the oats. I have heard that they are used in a lot of these recipes so that may be what you are missing. It sounds like you like this beer so it should be a fun time to change different variables and drink your way to the perfect batch.

 

[bowserm]

bowserm, are you saying I may have sparged with too much water because that would have brought up the pH or something? (I'm brand new to AG)

Yes, exactly. If your pH is too low it could not feel as bitter as a higher pH bitter.. if that makes sense.

Sorry for the delay, been busy

 

[skokott]

whip,

A mash at 148F sounds really low especially if I want more residuals, no?

I already got good attenuation. Went from 1.070 to 1.012